HEADLINE:Fearing the future, few Iraqis cheer US departure

Gonz

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
BAGHDAD – As Vice President Joe Biden presides over the formal end to U.S. combat operations in Iraq, few Iraqis are cheering the American exit.

Iraqis, who for years have railed against the U.S. occupation, are generally happy to see that the American presence won't be endless. But there is also considerable trepidation about whether Iraq can go it alone.

"It's not the right time," said Johaina Mohammed, a 40-year-old teacher from Baghdad. "There is no government, the security is deteriorating, and there is no trust."
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Nothing like leaving a job undone. Thanks President Obama.

Source
 
In all fairness, that job will never be done.
Western style democracy will never work there. We could be there another 1000 years and there will still be infighting and instability amongst the clans.
 
dave is right. western-style democracy there isn't now and will not be culturally possible for a long time, if ever.

we should have never wasted the money and US lives in the first place. we should have left saddam there to serve as a hedge to iran... which of course is now the big power there, and a big problem for us and israel.

if we took half the money we spent on the war and turned it into tax breaks for R+D into non-fossil energy sources, the ROI ten years from now would be huge. instead, the chinese are kicking our asses at that, too.
 
Peace in the middle east

That’s true minks, vast segments of the world’s population isn’t fit to participate
in 21st century first world civilization. Best we can do is to keep them from becoming
too much of a nuisance. Why does the western world allow Iran continue to exist?


9zledh.jpg
 
Dave said:
In all fairness, that job will never be done.
Western style democracy will never work there. We could be there another 1000 years and there will still be infighting and instability amongst the clans.
Click to expand...

It works in Israel.
 
2minkey said:
if we took half the money we spent on the war and turned it into tax breaks for R+D into non-fossil energy sources, the ROI ten years from now would be huge. instead, the chinese are kicking our asses at that, too.
Click to expand...

We have already spent several times that amount starting all the way back in the Carter era. It has gotten us nowhere because we cannot pay the sun to glow nor the wind to blow.

Read THIS

By your contention, if we spent half of the stimulus money -- which exceeds what was spent in Iraq -- on energy development we would be on our way to energy independence.

Hydrogen is a waste of time because the Law of Conservation of Energy says that you cannot get more energy out than you use to extract it. Unlike oil, hydrogen does not occur naturally and has to be extracted to be used. That extraction takes energy, usually provided by petroleum based energy sources. It is also not storage friendly.

So what would you throw all of the money at? Which technology would you say is the future of energy that will light our homes and transport our citizens and goods throughout the planet?
 
Tax breaks can be given, with or without a war. Why didn't Clinton, and his pal Al, give tax breaks when we weren't at war? I'm all for tax breaks but history has shown that, until necesssity rears its ugly head, not much is "discovered" when somethign so abundant as oil is avaialbe.

Fuck, how about tax breaks for drilling our own oil? Tell the eco-terrorists to piss up a rope. We've got plenty.

Dave, I disagree. It may not be easy but what, worth the trouble, is? I find most middle-easterners that I meet to be as "all-American" as any of us here. They want to protect their family, get ahead & be left alone. They don't find some great need for a dictator. Of course, they have already moved to the US so are only the morons are still there?
 
jimpeel said:
We have already spent several times that amount starting all the way back in the Carter era. It has gotten us nowhere because we cannot pay the sun to glow nor the wind to blow.

Read THIS

By your contention, if we spent half of the stimulus money -- which exceeds what was spent in Iraq -- on energy development we would be on our way to energy independence.

Hydrogen is a waste of time because the Law of Conservation of Energy says that you cannot get more energy out than you use to extract it. Unlike oil, hydrogen does not occur naturally and has to be extracted to be used. That extraction takes energy, usually provided by petroleum based energy sources. It is also not storage friendly.

So what would you throw all of the money at? Which technology would Iyou say is the future of energy that will light our homes and transport our citizens and goods throughout the planet?
Click to expand...

you're right jim. the future is all about oil. just like steam power was the future.

you've almost perfectly reproduced the mentality of the middle ages. i guess you don't like capitalism and free enterprise.

has geico called you yet to appear in ads?
 
Keep yer durned oil ya primitive Bedouins

Steam power still spins the turbines
in the coal and natural gas fired as well as
the 103 nuclear power plants that keep the lights turned on.

mebbe thar's still a future in that stuff?

How about the Feds make building and operating
a zero carbon emissions nuclear plant 50% cheaper through tax
incentives and by reduction of government interference
with their stupid safety regulations, while at the same time
promote coal to oil conversion technology?

Abolish the gas tax and while you are at it get rid of the
government interference thru café standards and you’d
see some real shit happen!


e9x07n.jpg
 
Fuck them Iraqis Who cares!

Nuke plants 50% off!
One on every corner!
3.5 cent kilowatt-hour power for everyone!
 
clever, very clever.

yes, we sure are living in the age of steam. um, no, that pretty much ended in the early 1900s. but if you want to live the dream, i'm sure you could pursue a future as a cobbler, a cooper, or a blacksmith. or perhaps a manual draftsman.
:moon:
 
2minkey said:
clever, very clever.

yes, we sure are living in the age of steam. um, no, that pretty much ended in the early 1900s. but if you want to live the dream, i'm sure you could pursue a future as a cobbler, a cooper, or a blacksmith. or perhaps a manual draftsman.
:moon:
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You certainly have a talent for picking bad examples.

All of those still exist just by different names.

Who do you think repairs your shoes?

Where do you think wineries and distilleries get their barrels?

The local welder is now the blacksmith. We have farriers who shoe our horses.

Get a copy of "Modern Marvels: The Secrets of Oil" and you will realize that oil is not only not going away anytime soon but that it is indispensable to our lives and economy.
 
jimpeel said:
You certainly have a talent for picking bad examples.

All of those still exist just by different names.

1. Who do you think repairs your shoes?

2. Where do you think wineries and distilleries get their barrels?

3. The local welder is now the blacksmith. We have farriers who shoe our horses.

4. Get a copy of "Modern Marvels: The Secrets of Oil" and you will realize that oil is not only not going away anytime soon but that it is indispensable to our lives and economy.
Click to expand...

1. no one. at least most of them get thrown out eventually. do you know how hard it is these days to find a shoe repair shop? there's only one that i know of in my city.

2. from specialized producers that are few and far between compared to an age long since passed.

3. a welder is not a blacksmith. they have much different roles and much different relationships to industry and technology, though they do both happen to work on/with metal. next you're going to tell me that a swimmer and an NFL offensive tackle are the same because they both participate in sports.

4. no shit oil is not going away soon, but the use of it should be incrementally reduced so we're less dependent on other parts of the world. you do want to be less dependent, right jim?
 
We should use more oil, not less.
Unless we want to condem ourselves to a
slow nasty decline into 3rd world cesspool, oh sorry that's right
that is exactly what the left advocates.
 
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