Here we go again ...

jimpeel

jimpeel

Well-Known Member
It must be summer.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-toddler23-2008jul23,0,3253773.story

Santa Clarita toddler dies after being left in minivan outside his home

The boy's mother, described by authorities as distraught, tells police she thought her older children had taken him out of the vehicle as she unloaded groceries. Sheriff’s Dept. is investigating.
By Molly Hennessy-Fiske, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
12:34 PM PDT, July 22, 2008

A 23-month-old Canyon Country boy died Monday after his mother left him inside the family minivan for several hours, authorities said.

Jack Winchester was dead when Los Angeles County sheriff's deputies were called to his family's home in the 20300 block of High Point Place about 5:10 p.m. Monday, authorities said.

The boy's mother had left him in the minivan with the windows rolled up after returning from a grocery shopping trip that afternoon with his two siblings, ages 6 and 4, Los Angeles Sheriff's Lt. Dave Dolson said.

The mother, whose name had not been released this morning, left the vehicle to unload groceries and assumed the two older children had unloaded Jack, Dolson said.

After she realized Jack was missing, she searched the house and found him still strapped into his car seat in the minivan, unconscious, Dolson said.

"It was a combination of absent-mindedness and distraction," Dolson said.

[more]
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And then there's this.

A bride who was having her nails done for her wedding discovered that she had left her son in her car. The boy expired due to heat.

There is some thought that she was unaware that the boy was even in the car when she left the house.

Time will tell.

VIDEO LINK TO THIS STORY
 
"Think about how stupid the average person is, okay? Statistically speaking, half the people are even stupider than that"! - George Carlin
 
I once left my 9mo daughter on top of the car; backed out of a 50 foot driveway; drove a half block to the stop sign; and made a left turn across the busiest street in the San Fernando Valley before I realized she was up there. Accidents happen. I was distracted by my son trying to get him into the car. I pulled over, got her in the car, had a good cry and went on with life.

If this happened today, people would have been on their cell phones calling the 911. There would be CPS reps on my doorstep when I got home. They would remove all of my children from my home for their "protection". I would be cited and hauled into court and maybe lose my job, kids, and freedom.

Things were a bit simpler then, thank God. We still recognized the fact that accidents happen. Today, there are no accidents and we have gone to this mentality of "Someone must pay!" for the slightest indiscretion.
 
jimpeel said:
I once left my 9mo daughter on top of the car; backed out of a 50 foot driveway; drove a half block to the stop sign; and made a left turn across the busiest street in the San Fernando Valley before I realized she was up there. Accidents happen. I was distracted by my son trying to get him into the car. I pulled over, got her in the car, had a good cry and went on with life.

If this happened today, people would have been on their cell phones calling the 911. There would be CPS reps on my doorstep when I got home. They would remove all of my children from my home for their "protection". I would be cited and hauled into court and maybe lose my job, kids, and freedom.

Things were a bit simpler then, thank God. We still recognized the fact that accidents happen. Today, there are no accidents and we have gone to this mentality of "Someone must pay!" for the slightest indiscretion.
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It's a tough one Jim, there is no clear answer here.

First, thank god nothing happened and your daughter was ok.

Should 911 be called in your case, yes, it would be idiotic not too, the police can stop you and let you know you forgot something.

In the case where the woman forgot her kid in the car, and the child died, that would be gross negligence, and in some places that would mean manslaughter.

It's a very grey area, where does making a BAD mistake become criminal.
 
I remember an incident where a man on his way to work got distracted by an urgent call from work..bypassed the daycare and forgot his kid in the baby seat once arriving at work. The kid was asleep, quiet and - luckily - fine when he woke up a few hours later and started crying (heard by a passerby). This was an indoor garage, as I recall.

It could easily have gone the other way...and yes, it was absentmindedness.

I personally go on 'automatic pilot' while driving..often getting to work with no recall of having driven the intervening distance. I was conscious enough to avoid obstacles, obey laws etc...but filed it all as 'unimportant' once I got to work. Voila - instantly erased. Time to go on with my day etc...

I've yet to forget my children in the car ... but it's not a HUGE stretch of the imagination for me to imagine how these things could happen, or why they continue to do so, despite the barrage of news when it DOES happen.
 
MrBishop said:
I remember an incident where a man on his way to work got distracted by an urgent call from work..bypassed the daycare and forgot his kid in the baby seat once arriving at work. The kid was asleep, quiet and - luckily - fine when he woke up a few hours later and started crying (heard by a passerby). This was an indoor garage, as I recall.

It could easily have gone the other way...and yes, it was absentmindedness.

I personally go on 'automatic pilot' while driving..often getting to work with no recall of having driven the intervening distance. I was conscious enough to avoid obstacles, obey laws etc...but filed it all as 'unimportant' once I got to work. Voila - instantly erased. Time to go on with my day etc...

I've yet to forget my children in the car ... but it's not a HUGE stretch of the imagination for me to imagine how these things could happen, or why they continue to do so, despite the barrage of news when it DOES happen.
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We had AN ENTIRE THREAD on this last year wherein I illustrated the underlying causes of people forgetting their kids in the car.

Congratulaioons on the attainment of post #12,000.
 
jimpeel said:
Which brings us to the unintended consequences of today. Parents are simply following the law and placing their children in the back seat. Unfortunately, if the child is asleep and making no sounds to alert parents to their presence, the parent can forget they are there until it is too late. Thus we have this “epidemic” of children dying in hot cars, and the parents going to jail, all because of the unintended consequence of a “benign” government mandate that was designed to protect those same children.
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Interesting point, but it seems to be saying the GVT intervention is overly negative, whereby I feel that many of the laws re: children's safety in passenger vehicles have saved far more lives than the unintentded consequences have taken.

Oh...and thanks. I hadn't even noticed. I really MUST get a life one day :D
 
MrBishop said:
Interesting point, but it seems to be saying the GVT intervention is overly negative, whereby I feel that many of the laws re: children's safety in passenger vehicles have saved far more lives than the unintentded consequences have taken.

Oh...and thanks. I hadn't even noticed. I really MUST get a life one day :D
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The problem is that even with all of the measures taken we still have road deaths in excess of 43,000 every year. THIS explains at least part of it.
 
I dunno, Jim. I don't drive any crazier because I'm wearing my seatbelt, nor since I own a car with safety-bags. The 'false sense of security' that's being bandied about in that link doesn't wash with me.

I'm happy about most, if not all, safety features in cars...mostly because cars go faster now than ever and there are more cars out there. If only a small portion of the population drives like idiots, the overall number of idiots on the road goes up yearly. Anything that can save my life and that of my kids in the case of an accident is a good thing.

Hell, I got front-ended in late June with my son in the back seat. Nothing dramatic, but I'd hate to think about what might've happened if my son hadn't been in his booster and belted in. Probably nothing serious, but..
 
spike said:
Yep, and there'd be a lot more without all the measures.
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Then you are saying that all of these measures have merely perpetuated the status quo. The numbers stay the same year after year because the measures in place have prevented them from rising ie: we have reached equilibrium. Regardless of all of the measures the death rate will remain the same far into the future.
 
MrBishop said:
I dunno, Jim. I don't drive any crazier because I'm wearing my seatbelt, nor since I own a car with safety-bags. The 'false sense of security' that's being bandied about in that link doesn't wash with me.

I'm happy about most, if not all, safety features in cars...mostly because cars go faster now than ever and there are more cars out there. If only a small portion of the population drives like idiots, the overall number of idiots on the road goes up yearly. Anything that can save my life and that of my kids in the case of an accident is a good thing.

Hell, I got front-ended in late June with my son in the back seat. Nothing dramatic, but I'd hate to think about what might've happened if my son hadn't been in his booster and belted in. Probably nothing serious, but..
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That may be you but you cannot discount the psychological influence of "feeling safer".
 
jimpeel said:
That may be you but you cannot discount the psychological influence of "feeling safer".
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Not immediately, no. There are many variations on that feeling..including the superman syndrome of adolescents, teens and young adults. "It can't happen to me"

Differentiating between the two statistically might be a bit more difficult.

You'd have to look at the average age of drivers overall, experience and then remove the variations caused when drivers have life changing events (Marriage/parenthood/health*age related illnesses) etc..and all that jazz.

Stats are never really that cut and dry. It's the kind of thing that gives Insurance brokers headaches. :D
 
many, many mistakes have been made in asserting analogies between the physical world and the social/behavioral world. it's kinda neat-o as explanatory trick but it's often wrong.

i see no reason to take this one more (or less) seriously than any others.

:bgtup:

not that i have any experience in evaluating such things...
 
spike said:
Not at all. I'm saying for the most part they save lives.
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By that standard they have only saved the lives that would have been lost over the 43,000+ per year we see year after year. In other words, equilibrium.

I see no evidence to support that.
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The stats are the evidence. Every year the number seems to remain at the 43,000+ figure regardless of all safety measures that are put in place.

Go to the Statistical Abstract of the United States and you will see that evidence first hand.

Start HERE, HERE, HERE, HERE, and HERE. That is only for 2003 (44,000+) and 2004 (64 short of 45,000).

Then try prior years. The links are on the main page under "Historical Statistics" on the right side of the page.
 
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