How I see the political spectrum, and why.

[Ardsgaine]

You guys can't win the argument, so you have to make it personal....

This isn't Love and Lifestyles. I have plenty of sympathy for Leslie's situation. I'm not going to let her use that sympathy to win the debate, though. Regardless of what she's going through, I don't think it's right for the state to take money from someone else to help her. I think that any help she gets from people should be voluntary. She should actually have to say to them, "I'm in a bad fix, can you help me out?" And they should have the right to say, "no, I'm afraid I can't afford to. I have other things in my life that are more important than helping out a complete stranger." When people are forced to give up the things they want to do with their money in order to help out someone who has no connection to them, my sympathy is with them first because their rights are being violated.

And, yes... I feel very noble about that.

 

[Squiggy]

What a fucking crock of shit. Les wasn't trying to win anything. She was expressing her appreciation for the system she lives in and YOU had to make her feel bad for it. And what argument are you speaking of? The one where you paste a bunch of philosophy written by someone else or the one where you rotate your graph to put yourself where you want to be?

that was a lousy fucking statement from someone who lets their wife do the earning and someone else fight his wars. Take a seat next to ol'man and pat each other on the back. I'm done with it.

 

[Jeslek]

So you consider it shameful if a man chooses to teach his kids?

 

[Luis G]

However, i think there should be a modification to that approach and leave the decision of either working or not to the individual.

Do you mean that people should receive an income whether they work or not?

No, they should have the choice to work and get paid, or to do not work and starve to death.

 

[Jeslek]

That is called capitalism, not socialism.

 

[Justintime]

Wow man, walk in someones shoes before you make a judgement

 

[Jeslek]

I didn't see him make a judgment call.

 

[Justintime]

I don't care what you see lol.

 

[Jeslek]

When people are forced to give up the things they want to do with their money in order to help out someone who has no connection to them, my sympathy is with them first because their rights are being violated.

I completely agree. I don't mind giving to charities, but forced charity equates stealing and violation of individual rights.

 

[Justintime]

See their comes a point where when arguments are fuckall, and when people show their machoisms and make brash statments and generally turn it into a circus, totally disregarding how others may feel, simply to prove a point.. thats when i get fed up all over again of this forum and the idiots who post in it, and also for the blood sniffers out there, make a fuckin note that i called no names and implied nothing.

 

[Ardsgaine]

What a fucking crock of shit. Les wasn't trying to win anything.

Bullshit. She was in a debate with me about the virtue of socialism.

She was expressing her appreciation for the system she lives in

Bullshit. She was using herself as an example of why there should be social programs.

YOU had to make her feel bad for it.

Bullshit. She, and you, and Q, and Justin, all want me to feel bad because I don't believe that she has the right to someone else's money.

And what argument are you speaking of? The one where you paste a bunch of philosophy written by someone else or the one where you rotate your graph to put yourself where you want to be?

Bullshit. You can't be ignorant enough to believe that that's all I'm doing, so I have to assume that you are being totally dishonest. I have posted more arguments on this board in the past two weeks than you've posted on here in the past two months. You have one refrain and you simply repeat it over and over, and you call that debating. Get a clue, it's not.

that was a lousy fucking statement from someone who lets their wife do the earning

The arrangement I have with my wife is none of your business, and is irrelevant to this discussion. It's just another example of you trying to turn every debate into a string of personal insults.

and someone else fight his wars.

Ditto.

Take a seat next to ol'man and pat each other on the back.

Ol' man is more your speed. In terms of debating skills, I don't see any difference.

I'm done with it.

You made that promise once before. You won't have to worry about keeping it this time. I'm done with you.

 

[Janimal]

that was a lousy fucking statement from someone who lets their wife do the earning

This statement is really unbelievable. You insult not only my husband's integrity, but mine as well. How my husband and I divy up our familial responsibilities has no bearing what-so-ever with the discussion at hand and is clearly meant as nothing but the lowest form of personal attack.

 

[ol' man]

Take a seat next to ol'man and pat each other on the back. I'm done with it.

LOL, when you are around other people in person you don't try to speak do you? I hope not cause you got halitosis of the brain
You must have got beat up alot when a child

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. Please be done with it, please?

 

[Justintime]

Ok, everyone (includin me) just calm down please theres only one solution if this thread keeps to the path its going.

 

[Ardsgaine]

Wow man, walk in someones shoes before you make a judgement

Show me where I said something bad about her.

 

[Justintime]

I've had three sisters who went through divorces, and as far as I know, none of them required government assistance. They got a small amount of help from me and other members of the family, but that, of course, was completely voluntary on our part.

In what shes going through now, don't you think she'd at least feel bad about you saying that man?

 

[Ardsgaine]

Ok, everyone just calm down please theres only one solution if this thread keeps to the path its going.

Go ahead and lock the thread. I spent the better part of this morning typing up the opening post, and I didn't get one single response with any appreciable content in exchange for my effort. Not only that, but I have been personally insulted in the worst possible way. I'm going to leave you people alone to go back to your sniping. There's no way that anyone can have an intelligent conversation in this forum. It's dominated by people who have no goal other than to badger anyone who doesn't agree with them. Not refute, not debate with, just badger. It's pathetic.

 

[Justintime]

This isn't Love and Lifestyles. I have plenty of sympathy for Leslie's situation. I'm not going to let her use that sympathy to win the debate, though. Regardless of what she's going through, I don't think it's right for the state to take money from someone else to help her.

 

[Justintime]

Squiggy i agree with Ardsgaine there however, that was rather uncalled for.

 

[Luis G]

Ok, everyone just calm down please theres only one solution if this thread keeps to the path its going.

Go ahead and lock the thread. I spent the better part of this morning typing up the opening post, and I didn't get one single response with any appreciable content in exchange for my effort. Not only that, but I have been personally insulted in the worst possible way. I'm going to leave you people alone to go back to your sniping. There's no way that anyone can have an intelligent conversation in this forum. It's dominated by people who have no goal other than to badger anyone who doesn't agree with them. Not refute, not debate with, just badger. It's pathetic.

I didn't see anything to debate, you were just presenting your views, i read it all and i pointed what i didn't agree with, i have no intentions to argue these days, plus i don't like the idea of long posts mainly because i'm not very articulated in english and when i write long sentences or too much sentences i don't make sense at all. But for the sake of it, i also disagree with this:

A man comes up with an idea to increase production, he puts the idea into effect and then the socialist comes along and says, "you have too much wealth. You're depriving your fellow man of his fair share, so we have to take away your wealth and give it to the less fortunate," i.e., those who either weren't intelligent enough to come up with the idea, or motivated enough to put the idea into practice. Socialism destroys the incentive to strive for greater production. It makes people equal by making them all poor.

The fundamental mistake in your approach on that paragraph is that socialism is not individualism, it works on a social basis you know the "greater good for everybody", its incentive to be more productive is to increase everybody's wealth incluyding yours, if you produce better, then your scheme could be copied and increase everybody's wealth. Socialism is not only an economic model, it is also a paradigm (or at least it should be), it probably hasn't worked and it 'll probably never work because people don't accept the paradigm, everybody is just too greedy and selfish to accept that you're not richer than your significant other.

On the other hand, i must say i did expected someone else to come and say something smart in this thread.