I hate this about myself

[Gonz]

I always play fair

FORMER TREASURY SECRETARY PAUL ONEILL SAYS INVASION OF IRAQ WAS PLANNED IN THE FIRST DAYS OF THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION LONG BEFORE 9/11, IN AN EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW SUNDAY ON "60 MINUTES"


Sat Jan 10 2004 09:12:37 ET


The Bush Administration began laying plans for an invasion of Iraq including the use of American troops within days of President Bush's inauguration in January of 2001, not eight months later after the 9/11 attacks as has been previously reported. That is what former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill says in his first interview about his time as a White House insider. O'Neill talks to Lesley Stahl in the interview, to be broadcast on 60 MINUTES Sunday, Jan. 11 (7:00-8:00 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network.

"From the very beginning, there was a conviction that Saddam Hussein was a bad person and that he needed to go," he tells Stahl. "For me, the notion of pre-emption, that the U.S. has the unilateral right to do whatever we decide to do is a really huge leap," says O'Neill.

O'Neill, fired by the White House for his disagreement on tax cuts, is the main source for an upcoming book, "The Price of Loyalty," authored by Ron Suskind. Suskind says O'Neill and other White House insiders he interviewed gave him documents that show that in the first three months of 2001, the administration was looking at military options for removing Saddam Hussein from power and planning for the aftermath of Saddam's downfall, including post-war contingencies like peacekeeping troops, war crimes tribunals and the future of Iraq's oil. "There are memos," Suskind tells Stahl, "One of them marked 'secret' says 'Plan for Post-Saddam Iraq.'" A Pentagon document, says Suskind, titled "Foreign Suitors For Iraqi Oilfield Contracts," outlines areas of oil exploration. "It talks about contractors around the world from...30, 40 countries and which ones have what intentions on oil in Iraq," Suskind says.

In the book, O'Neill is quoted as saying he was surprised that no one in a National Security Council meeting questioned why Iraq should be invaded. "It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying 'Go find me a way to do this,'" says O'Neill in the book.

Suskind also writes about a White House meeting in which he says the president seems to be wavering about going forward with his second round of tax cuts. "Haven't we already given money to rich people," Suskind says the president uttered, according to a nearly verbatim transcript of an Economic Team meeting he says he obtained from someone at the meeting, "Shouldn't we be giving money to the middle?"

O'Neill, who was asked to resign because of his opposition to the tax cut, says he doesn't think his tell-all account in this book will be attacked by his former employers as sour grapes. "I will be really disappointed if [the White House] reacts that way," he tells Stahl. "I can't imagine that I am going to be attacked for telling the truth."

Developing...

 

[tonksy]

uh huh...he's just trying to 'get' the guy who threatened his daddy....no big surprise...

 

[chcr]

FORMER TREASURY SECRETARY PAUL ONEILL SAYS INVASION OF IRAQ WAS PLANNED IN THE FIRST DAYS OF THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION LONG BEFORE 9/11, IN AN EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW SUNDAY ON "60 MINUTES"

Gasp!!! (Sorry, I couldn't help myself)

Okay, now look at the pattern of lies and deceptions they used to sell the idea of war to the american people. I just don't understand how anyone can defend it. I never have.

 

[Leslie]

awwww...that must've been hard for you Gonz *hugs*

 

[Shadowfax]

his shrink would've been proud of him

 

[HeXp£Øi±]

**SHOCK~~SURPRISE**

Oh... he just happens to be selling a book on the subject. Every administartion plans for these types of contingencies. You think Clinton didn't have people working on the exact same issues?
How naive can you be? Well let me break it to you, we also have plans to invade North Korea, Syria, Iran, the Soviet Republics and many other nations. So did the Clinton administration, the first Bush administration and the reagan administration before that. It's what the government does.

yeesh

 

[Squiggy]

I can't believe he just found out about it...cripes, Bush ordered a strike within 4 days of taking office and it came out then that he intended to provoke a war...Are Gonz's eyes suddenly opening?

 

[chcr]

**SHOCK~~SURPRISE**

Oh... he just happens to be selling a book on the subject. Every administartion plans for these types of contingencies. You think Clinton didn't have people working on the exact same issues?
How naive can you be? Well let me break it to you, we also have plans to invade North Korea, Syria, Iran, the Soviet Republics and many other nations. So did the Clinton administration, the first Bush administration and the reagan administration before that. It's what the government does.

yeesh

You know, Hex, the administration embarked on a plan of lies and deception from day one to get America into a war with Iraq. 9/11 just made it easy. We know they lied about the link to al-Qaida, it's becoming clearer and clearer that they lied about the WMDs (not misinformed, lied), we know they deliberately misinterpreted the Nigerian nuclear reports to the press. What does it take? He sent American troops to die for personal reasons. Clinton lied under oath about being blown and I thought they should have thrown him out, but you don't understand why I (and others) don't like Bush? O'Neill is just corroberation, he's not saying anything new. It's criminal that he didn't come forward with this information sooner, but as you say, he had to make his book deal first.

 

[Gonz]

I posted this, as I stated, because I believe in fair play. When the probability would be for one of you to post it, I won't. This is day 3 from behind the Sunday Morning Shows scenes & I decided it was time & fair.

No Squiggy, my eyes aren't just opening. They've been open from the start. You are the one with blinders on. Understandable since you hated Bush by name alone & politics is more fun when you hate somebody.

Hex is about right. Contingency plans plus a bitter fired staffer equals sensationalism. Plain & simple. Nothing sells like advance PR.

chcr, you aren't as bad as our frog friend, though one would be hard pressed to see the difference. Lies & deceit? He's a dweeb. You're giving him way too much credit. He's a simple man with a simple task, protect America. Which, like most focused individuals, he's accomplishing admirably.

Every country around the globe (especially the French, German & Russians) knew he had WMDs. Those three were selling hims parts for chrissake. He used them on Iranians. He used them on Iraqi Kurds. He used them on Kuwaitis. He had them. He admitted to having them & he's been known to use them. How goddman much more proof do you need? As I've asked from the beginning, where are they now? I have suspicions that their presence will be announced somewhere in the mid to late summer. If, by the election, there is no official word, then we've been duped by a third world, third rate dictator & the entire CIA management should be thrown out of DC on their ear. This is a security clusterfuck. Every President since Reagan (maybe before) has had an eye (or more) on Iraq. Most have used military might against him.

The Nigerian "yellowcake" story may be much less scandalous than it appears. There is information that much, if not all, is correct. Either way, who cares. That was not the clear & specific reasoning for war. It was a single sentence in a 6 month run-up.

You (collectively) may not like our President. You may think this war is unjust, illegal, outrageous, blah blah blah blah.
Maybe. I am sure, without question or hesitation, that one thing is clear form this war...our (and your) shores are safer. Our civilians haven't been attacked, again. The killing & mayhem is going on in the streets of a country that has more to do with 9/11 than we may ever know. It's keeping the terrorists out of Atlanta, NYC, Dallas, Phoenix, Montreal, Alberta, Tijuana, Guadalajara, Lisbon, Manchester, London and yes-Paris as well as hundreds, if not thousands of other places.

Don't like it? Understood. However, are you willing to die, getting a sandwich at the nearest deli, just because some insane suicidal monster hates that you have freedom? I'm not.

 

[Rose]

I have a friend serving in the military, been serving in Baghdad since the ground troops first went in last March. Been there ever since.

He's a fan of Bush. Hopes Bush gets reelected.

I find it interesting.


*for the record - I've not stated my opinions, just passing on thoughts*

 

[Squiggy]

Since Reagen? you mean like when he sent Rumsfeld to visit Sadam and assure him we had no problem with his gassing the Kurds as long as he was willing to accept our weapons and fight Iran?
There is a HUGE difference in contingency plans vs active intimidation for the purpose of creating a war...
I, for one, feel less safe buying my sandwich now than before this war....

Maybe your eyes will never open...

 

[chcr]

that one thing is clear form this war...our (and your) shores are safer.

I agree, Gonz that ater 9/11 security for America has improved. I will even say that Bush has been responsible for some of it. I"ve said it before, I"ll say it now more plainly. The war in Iraq has had no effect in any way on national security. They were not a threat, they were not involved with al-Qaida, they did not have the WMDs. All Saddam was to us was noisy and annoying. I agree that he was an arrogant, horrible madman but having supported some (still supporting some) the removal of Saddam as the sole reason for the war is not, will never be good enough. You're right, Bush is a dweeb. He does what he's told fairly efficiently though. If you'll notice, I sometimes refer to the administration rather than him individually. This is because I assume the clever stuff comes from someone else. Lies and deceit are all they know. Misdirection and propaganda. I'm sorry so many people accept it because I'm afraid we're in for four more years.

Hey Rose, my son is in the military. Not in Iraq, but he likes Bush too because he's showing the world that America "kicks butt." I fear that perhaps this is not the best impression to give the world, given that one thing most countries fear above most others is "Pax Americana."

I'll remind you that part of what is going on now is the long term price of "Pax Brittania."

 

[Gonz]

Squiggy, open your eyes to the entire picture. You can't seem to look past what displeases you.

We made sure the Iraqi's gave the Iranians a run for thier money. Had Iran beaten Iraq, then we'd have been in the Iraq/Kuwait boat 7 or 8 years sooner. Except Iran would have moved west, not north.

Either way, we fed both armies...to even out the odds.

Just for fun, name ONE weapon system that was supplied by the US. I'll bet you can't do it. We supplied information & support to Iraq...they supplied Bio/chems. We supplied Iran with real weapons.

 

[Bungi]

Squiggy, open your eyes to the entire picture. You can't seem to look past what displeases you.

We made sure the Iraqi's gave the Iranians a run for thier money. Had Iran beaten Iraq, then we'd have been in the Iraq/Kuwait boat 7 or 8 years sooner. Except Iran would have moved west, not north.

Either way, we fed both armies...to even out the odds.

Just for fun, name ONE weapon system that was supplied by the US. I'll bet you can't do it. We supplied information & support to Iraq...they supplied Bio/chems. We supplied Iran with real weapons.

List of chemical agents sold to Iraq by U.S. corporations between 1985 and 1990, as per the 1994 U.S. Senate Report:

Bacillus Anthracis
Clostridium Botulinium
Histoplasma Capsulatum
Brucella Melitensis
Clostridium Perfringens

Duel Use technologies (read Weapons) supplied to Iraq by U.S. corporations:

HP: Supplied computers to the scud missile and nuclear development arm of the iraq military, also sent computer systems to two government agencies overseeing chemical weapons development

AT&T: Was paid to optimise products from defence company Huawei, these products later became part of Iraqs air defence system

Bechtel: Assisted with the construction of a petrochemical plant in Iraq in a joint venture with an Iraq corporation tied to the military.

Catterpillar: Provided $10 million to assist Iraqs nuclear weapons program.

DuPoint: Sold $30000 worth of specialy engineered oil used in the Iraq nuclear program

Kodak: sold $172000 worh of equipment used in the development of Iraq missile programs

Hughes Helicopter: Sold 60 militery use helicopters to Iraq in 1983.

between 1985 and 1990 the U.S. provided Iraq with $1.5 billion worth of dual use technologies for chemical, biological and conventional nuclear systems. A further $308 million worth of aircraft, helicopters and parts was transferred to Iraq.

The U.S. also provided Iraq with intelligence information and battle stratagies for use in the Iraq-Iran war.

Source: Michael Moore, "Dude? Where's my Country?" (which lists more sources )

That's alot more than just information and support Gonzo

 

[Gonz]

Nope. Not a single weapon system.

How about our esteemed friends & colleagues?

The Iraqi air force does not fly Falcons or Eagles. The majority of the Iraqi air force is made in Russia. The Russian MiG and Sukhoi design bureaus supplied Iraq with hundreds of advanced strike-fighters and the Mach 3 Foxbat interceptor.

Saddam could field a force of advanced MiG-29 Fulcrum fighters if they had not chickened out of combat during the Gulf War, flying to Iran for asylum. The Iranians, who love Saddam even less than we do, never returned the MiGs.

The remainder of the Iraqi air force comes from France and China. The Chinese supplied Saddam with the Chengdu F-7, a copy of the Russian MiG-21. The F-7 can fly from unimproved runways and is known to be a vicious in-close dog fighter.

However, the French Mirage F-1 is reportedly the best jet fighter in Iraqi hands. You can view an Iraqi F-1 in action on the State Department Web site, testing a chemical spraying system.

Maybe they used the sprayers for a bad June Bug infestation.

The primary Iraqi missile is the Russian-made Scud. Other missiles include the FROG-7 from Russia, the Exocet from France and the Silkworm from China.

The Iraqi air defense has plenty of missiles ... from Russia, China and France. The SA-2 Guideline, SA-3 Goa and SA-6 Gainful SAM missiles are all of Russian or Chinese manufacture. The French also supplied Baghdad with a number of Roland air defense missile systems.

Wow, not many American systems....I'll kep looking

The Iraqi armor force is made up of Chinese and Russian models familiar to any "cold" warrior. The Iraqi T-72 and T-55 tanks are all of Russian manufacture. The Iraqis also have a large number of Type-59 Chinese tanks and Russian-made BMP armored troop carriers.

No M-1 Abrams here.

The Iraqi attack chopper force is Russian and French. The Russians supplied Iraq with a large number of the Mil-24 Hind attack helicopters, armed to the teeth with cannon, missiles and even chemical weapon sprayers.

The French supplied Saddam with a large number of Gazelle attack helicopters. The same French also managed to keep Saddam's attack helicopter force flying today with spare parts.

Surely the U.S. supplied Saddam with guns?

Nope. The main Iraqi artillery is the French 155mm howitzer. The remainder of Iraq's artillery is 122mm Russian-made cannons and Russian-made short-range rocket launchers. Even the Iraqi foot soldier is armed with the venerable AK-47 of Russian and Chinese make.

Parts then?

The Russian, Chinese and French jets should be museum pieces after 12 years of a so-called U.N. ban on weapons sales to Iraq. Yet somehow Saddam has his air force flying over 1,000 sorties a month.

Thanks to excellent reporting by Bill Gertz we now know that France has been supplying spare parts for Saddam's Mirage fighters. The French spare parts arrived in Baghdad not 20 years ago during the Cold War but last year, just in time to face our forces today.

Even the missile parts are from Chinese, German and French sources. Israeli authorities know full well what is inside Iraqi-made Scud missiles since many of them fell on Tel Aviv during the Gulf War. The Israelis found that the Scud warhead electronics were made in Germany – not the U.S.A.

In addition, William Safire recently wrote a column noting that a Chinese chemical company had supplied rocket fuel to Iraq through a French front company. Safire identified the fuel, the companies and the Iraqi missile facility where it was mixed into new Iraqi rockets. Again, the missile fuel sale was made within the last year, just in time to make new Iraqi missiles pointed at Kuwait, Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Iran.

Saddam sends his love to Paris and Beijing. Without your help he certainly could not threaten his neighbors with nerve gas and anthrax.

These are WEAPON SYSTEMS.

Michael Moore speculated on potential with no historical refernce. When the US sells goods, the US reports sales.

 

[Leslie]

*is not seeing the love in this thread*

 

[A.B.Normal]

*is not seeing the love in this thread*

 

[Bungi]

Iraq was removed from State's list of terrorist-supporting countries
in 1982. A Commerce official told us that this made Iraq eligible to
purchase aircraft, helicopters, and national security controlled
items for military end use. A State document showed that within 2
months after Iraq was removed from antiterrorism controls, an
application by a U.S. firm to sell Iraq six aircraft was approved.
According to Commerce records, between 1985 and 1990, aircraft,
helicopters, and related parts, worth $308 million, were approved for
sale to Iraq.

Commerce officials told us that because Iraq was removed from
antiterrorism controls and because controls on missile technology and
chemical and biological warfare were not in place until the late
1980s, few foreign policy controls were placed on exports to Iraq
during the 1980s. They said that this, along with the lack of
national security controls, resulted in a long list of
high-technology items being sold to Iraq during the 1980s.

Commerce data showed that between 1985 and 1990, it approved 771
licenses, valued at $1.5 billion, for sales to Iraq, while only 39
applications were rejected.

Two cases of arms diversion to Iraq involved Middle East countries.
A State official believes that so few Middle East diversions were
detected because Iraq was being well supplied with arms from other
countries. In 1984, State received reports that a Middle East
country had transferred TOW missiles to Iraq. Based on these
reports, State delivered a protest to that government. In 1986,
State received reports that Saudi Arabia had transferred U.S.
munitions to Iraq. In response to State's inquiry, the Saudi
government said that 300 MK-84 2,000-pound bombs were inadvertently mixed in with a shipment of non-U.S. origin munitions sent to Iraq in February 1986.

Regarding State's comment, we are not privy to the information that
determined the reported transfers were not credible. Our discussions
of these cases are as they are reflected in the documentation we were
able to obtain. Moreover, in connection with one of the cases, we
acquired information, which remains classified, that indicates
additional quantities of items were transferred.

We obtained licensing information from Commerce for all applications
for exports of dual-use items to Iraq between 1985 and 1990. From
State, we obtained licensing information on all applications for
exports of munitions items to Iraq between 1983 and 1990. We also
obtained copies of some approved munitions licenses.

Electronic 3,185 4/22/86 Iraqi Air Force Spare part for air
component traffic control
system

Communications 1,255,000 5/21/85 Iraqi Air Force To boost voice
amplifiers signals of air
traffic control

http://www.fas.org/man/gao/gao9498.htm


Lookie Gonz! Our good friends the Saudis sent them bombs! Of course the US had nothing to do with that... of course not! They didn't know the weapons were being channeled!

System or not, the components were used for military purposes.

 

[Bungi]

CIA Director Casey personally spearheaded the effort to ensure
that Iraq had sufficient military weapons, ammunition and vehicles to
avoid losing the Iran-Iraq war. Pursuant to the secred NSDD, the United
States actively supported the Iraqi war effort by supplying the Iraqis
with billions of dollars of credits, by providing U.S. military
intelligence and advice to the Iraqis, and by closely monitoring third
country arms sales to Iraq to make sure that Iraq had the military
weaponry required. The United States also provided strategic operational
advice to the Iraqis to better use their assets in combat.

I personally attended meetings in which CIA Director Casey or
CIA Deputy Director Gates noted the need for Iraq to have certain weapons
such as cluster bombs and anti-armor penetrators in order to stave off the
Iranian attacks. When I joined the NSC staff in early 1982, CIA Director
Casey was adamant that cluster bombs were a perfect "force multiplier"
that would allow the Iraqis to defend against the "human waves" of Iranian
attackers. I recorded those comments in the minutes of National Security
Planning Group ("NSPG") meetings in which Casey or Gates participated.

The CIA, including both CIA Director Casey and Deputy Director
Gates, knew of, approved of, and bassisted in the sale of non-U.S. origin
military weapons, ammunition and vehicles to Iraq. My notes, memoranda
and other documents in my NSC files show or tend to show that the CIA knew
of, approved of, and assisted in the sale of non-U.S. origin military
weapons, munitions and vehicles to Iraq.

One of the reasons that the United States refused to license
or sell U.S. origin weapons to Iraq was that the supply of non-U.S. origin
weapons to Iraq was sufficient to meet Iraq's needs. Under CIA Director
Casey and Deputy Director Gates, the CIA made sure that non-U.S.
manufacturers manufactured and sold to Iraq the weapons needed by Iraq.
In certain instances where a key component in a weapon was not readily
available, the highest levels of the United States government decided to
make the component available, directly or indirectly, to Iraq. I
specifically recall that the provision of anti-armor penetrators to Iraq
was a case in point. The United States made a policy decision to supply
penetrators to Iraq. My notes, memoranda and other documents in my NSC
files will contain references to the Iraqis' need for anti-armor
penetrators and the decision to provide penetrators to Iraq.

The United States and the CIA maintained a program known as
the 'Bear Spares" program whereby the United States made sure that spare
parts and ammunition for Soviet or Soviet-style weaponry were available to
countries which sought to reduce their dependence on the Soviets for
defense needs. If the "Bear Spares" were manufactured outside the United
States, then the United States could arrange for the provision of these
weapons to a third country without direct involvement.

Under CIA Director Casey and Deputy Director Gates, the CIA
authorized, approved and assisted Cardoen in the manufacture and sale of
cluster bombs and other munitions to Iraq.

CIA Director William Casey, aware of Cardoen's arrest and the
conviction of his employees and his company, intervened in order to make
sure that Cardoen was able to supply cluster bombs to Iraq. Specifically,
CIA Director Casey directed the Secretaries of the State and Commerce
Departments that the necessary licenses required by Cardoen were not to be
denied.

Executed on 1/31/95

Howard Teicher (signature appears on original)

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1413.htm

 

[Gonz]

I specified weapon systems & your source helped to verify my findings

the United States actively supported the Iraqi war effort by supplying the Iraqis with billions of dollars of credits, by providing U.S. military intelligence and advice to the Iraqis, and by closely monitoring third country arms sales to Iraq to make sure that Iraq had the military
weaponry required. The United States also provided strategic operational
advice to the Iraqis to better use their assets in combat.