If you don't believe in Heaven, do you believe in.....

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spike said:
I see how you ignored most of the post again because the facts didn't work for you. It's a pattern.

Hey look at al those hut countries. ZOMG!

Also, I don't suppose you want to back up that "people in huts with no healthcare live longer" claim?
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OK, that was easy, and a moron would accept it as a legitimate answer. Show me the proof of how this is a "health care" issue.

What EXACTLY is the causation of the increased mortality rates? You have not shown the CAUSATION of the death, you simply attribute it it to "health care". Proof provided = none



The answer "people die therefore is must be health care issue" doesn't fly.
 
spike said:
I see how you ignored most of the post again because the facts didn't work for you. It's a pattern.

Hey look at al those hut countries. ZOMG!

Also, I don't suppose you want to back up that "people in huts with no healthcare live longer" claim?
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OK, I will offer you the trends that include scientific speculation. It good enough to explain that "health care" is not the holy-grail for causation for preventive mortality and morbidity. That diet, genetic, and other factors play a much larger role.

Either that or Okinawa has the best health care system in the world by your standards.

Polynesian islands are famous for the life expectancy rates. Many of those do live in huts as they have for century's.

http://www.okicent.org/study.html

http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0002934304008125

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/en/doc/2003-09/09/content_262672.htm

There are also jungle tribes with astounding life expectancy rates, they eat mainly vegetation fish and nuts. The live long with almost zero "health care".


So why does America have so many under weight babies? Could it be a social issue?
 
spike said:
Ever wondered what your doctor thinks about the public option? A survey published today found most doctors are in favor of it.
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Polls are such fun.

IBD said:
Two of every three practicing physicians oppose the medical overhaul plan under consideration in Washington, and hundreds of thousands would think about shutting down their practices or retiring early if it were adopted, a new IBD/TIPP Poll has found.
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Investors Business Daily on 09/15/2009
 
ResearchMonkey said:
OK, that was easy, and a moron would accept it as a legitimate answer. Show me the proof of how this is a "health care" issue.

What EXACTLY is the causation of the increased mortality rates? You have not shown the CAUSATION of the death, you simply attribute it it to "health care". Proof provided = none



The answer "people die therefore is must be health care issue" doesn't fly.
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I already tried to have this conversation with him. The quacking was so loud it hurt my ears every time he ducked the questions. He does not understand the difference between correlations and cause and effect.

We did, however, establish that the world's best health care in in Afgahnistan since the death rates due to cancer are so low there. :hairbang:
 
ResearchMonkey said:
Yeah, those other social factors aren't included in the "facts" you present.

You know that people who live in huts and eat fish diets have considerably less health problems and live longer with almost ZERO health care.

So until you can account for diets other social factors your "facts" mean exactly squat!


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Gee it seems your "facts" are again in question.
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Umm, no maybe you should investigate your source. There are NUMEROUS flaws in that poll in methodology and accuracy. When you cherry pick your responses, you get the results you want. The business sector doesn't want health care reform, but real doctors do....

Besides, I mean I don't want a doctor whose primary motive is profit. Maybe if you are a complete idiot you like the idea, but I say no thanks!

Try actually finding a reputable source to refute reliable polls!

Debating RM on this issue is like shootin' fish in a barrel!
 
It would be humorous how duped you guys are. So willing to believe they hype lies and propaganda, if it wasn't just so damned pathetic, and it didn't have such dire consequences for us all!
 
Gonz said:
Who?
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It doesn't matter who. Do ANY reading on the matter at all and you would see the IBD poll is flawed and unreliable at best. The other poll was conducted scientifically. But oh that doesn't support your agenda, so on second thought don't bother, I know you won't anyway. Just follow, like a sheep, and then call us sheep to make you feel better!
 
Here, did ewe need a widdle help with big bad hawd to undewstand Google?

He actually knows what he is talking about here which is your worst enemy!
 
ResearchMonkey said:
OK, that was easy, and a moron would accept it as a legitimate answer. Show me the proof of how this is a "health care" issue.
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You're saying you think none of the infant deaths have to do with their health? Or healthcare? That's be weird.

What leads you to believe our healthcare is so wonderful? All the medical bankruptcies? All the people that die because they don't have coverage? The people who get dropped when their sick? The denied claims that kill people? The 37th ranking? The low ranking on infant death or life expectancy?

What is it?
 
ResearchMonkey said:
OK, I will offer you the trends that include scientific speculation. It good enough to explain that "health care" is not the holy-grail for causation for preventive mortality and morbidity. That diet, genetic, and other factors play a much larger role.
Click to expand...

Diet, exercise, and the lack of doing unhealthy things can certainly do wonders for life expectancy as can proper healthcare.

Either that or Okinawa has the best health care system in the world by your standards.
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Japan has a pretty good system.

"In the Japanese health care system, healthcare services, including screening examinations for particular diseases at no direct cost to the patient, prenatal care, and infectious disease control, are provided by national and local governments. Payment for personal medical services is offered through a universal health care insurance system that provides relative equality of access, with fees set by a government committee. People without insurance through employers can participate in a national health insurance program administered by local governments. Since 1983[1], all elderly persons have been covered by government-sponsored insurance. Patients are free to select physicians or facilities of their choice."

Polynesian islands are famous for the life expectancy rates. Many of those do live in huts as they have for century's.

http://www.okicent.org/study.html

http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0002934304008125

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/en/doc/2003-09/09/content_262672.htm
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So, no evidence that people in huts with no healthcare live longer. All Japan stuff which has a good system.

I'm not saying that diet, exercise, and unheathy vices don't play a part but you gotta admit there's a bunch of countries out of those 36 that beat us that have pretty similar lifestyles.
 
spike said:
So, no evidence that people in huts with no healthcare live longer. .
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No, none other than the few thousand years prior to 1900AD.

See, in your statistic, you must account for these issues before you credit them to "healthcare" as some form of proof. Ofcourse you could use those statistics if your healthcare plan is to include things like; what you can eat, how much exercise you get every day, your living conditions. Chairmen Mao would be proud of your plan.

As far as infant deaths go I say that FAR more of infant death has to do with life choices of the mother. Are you saying that babies found in toilets and dumpsters are a health care issue?
 
ResearchMonkey said:
No, none other than the few thousand years prior to 1900AD.

See, in your statistic, you must account for these issues before you credit them to "healthcare" as some form of proof. Ofcourse you could use those statistics if your healthcare plan is to include things like; what you can eat, how much exercise you get every day, your living conditions. Chairmen Mao would be proud of your plan.

As far as infant deaths go I say that FAR more of infant death has to do with life choices of the mother. Are you saying that babies found in toilets and dumpsters are a health care issue?
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But, of course you have no answer to the fact that the poll you posted was misleading and basically a fraud from the get go huh? When caught in a lie, deny, deny, deny, or refuse to address or change the subject. Nice strategy.....FAIL!

:lol2:
 
Gonz said:
Oh, right. Sorry. My mistake. You are the king of statisticians (with the hlp of media matters).

After all, all other polls are absolute.
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Just because you have no interest in actual facts and polls that are actually representative of physicians opinions isn't my problem. You discount information based on the website (that you dislike) it comes from because it pretty much blows your opinion out of the water. The FACT is your numbers were cherry picked and the others were not. But then you will never let facts interfere with your agenda will you?

Don't like a poll.....Make another that cherry picks and gets the answers you want!

Again when your own Fox propaganda agency even admits the IBD poll isn't scientific, then you have to KNOW it is completely agenda driven.

BTW, because I am sure you cannot be bothered to look into info that doesn't support your narrow minded view and agenda, Nate Silver is a statistician and accurately predicted 49 of 50 states in the last election.

But its all bullshit because you don't like the outcomes of such polls! Get back to swallowing the agenda hook line and sinker! Yeah we are all sheep, but you sir are a deep thinker! I mean you can justify all kinds of denial of the truth!
 
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