Illegal combatants

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
The Geneva Conventions, like all legal documentation, only covers what is specifically included. No inferences may be made & "the spirit of the law", while seemingly solid, is not legal. Describing particulars is why we have a bazillion lawyers. Definitions are important. They are also a loophole.

These are the protected classes.
GC 3 said:
Art 4. A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:
(1) Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict, as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.

(2) Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:[
(a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
(b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
(c) that of carrying arms openly;
(d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

(3) Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.

(4) Persons who accompany the armed forces without actually being members thereof, such as civilian members of military aircraft crews, war correspondents, supply contractors, members of labour units or of services responsible for the welfare of the armed forces, provided that they have received authorization, from the armed forces which they accompany, who shall provide them for that purpose with an identity card similar to the annexed model.

(5) Members of crews, including masters, pilots and apprentices, of the merchant marine and the crews of civil aircraft of the Parties to the conflict, who do not benefit by more favourable treatment under any other provisions of international law.

(6) Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.

B. The following shall likewise be treated as prisoners of war under the present Convention:
(1) Persons belonging, or having belonged, to the armed forces of the occupied country, if the occupying Power considers it necessary by reason of such allegiance to intern them, even though it has originally liberated them while hostilities were going on outside the territory it occupies, in particular where such persons have made an unsuccessful attempt to rejoin the armed forces to which they belong and which are engaged in combat, or where they fail to comply with a summons made to them with a view to internment.

(2) The persons belonging to one of the categories enumerated in the present Article, who have been received by neutral or non-belligerent Powers on their territory and whom these Powers are required to intern under international law, without prejudice to any more favourable treatment which these Powers may choose to give and with the exception of Articles 8, 10, 15, 30, fifth paragraph, 58-67, 92, 126 and, where diplomatic relations exist between the Parties to the conflict and the neutral or non-belligerent Power concerned, those Articles concerning the Protecting Power. Where such diplomatic relations exist, the Parties to a conflict on whom these persons depend shall be allowed to perform towards them the functions of a Protecting Power as provided in the present Convention, without prejudice to the functions which these Parties normally exercise in conformity with diplomatic and consular usage and treaties.

C. This Article shall in no way affect the status of medical personnel and chaplains as provided for in Article 33 of the present Convention.

These people are legal combatants.

Should any doubt arise as to whether persons, having committed a belligerent act and having fallen into the hands of the enemy, belong to any of the categories enumerated in Article 4, such persons shall enjoy the protection of the present Convention until such time as their status has been determined by a competent tribunal.


Here are the illegal combatants
GC 4 said:
Nationals of a State which is not bound by the Convention are not protected by it. Nationals of a neutral State who find themselves in the territory of a belligerent State, and nationals of a co-belligerent State, shall not be regarded as protected persons while the State of which they are nationals has normal diplomatic representation in the State in whose hands they are.

Art. 5 Where in the territory of a Party to the conflict, the latter is satisfied that an individual protected person is definitely suspected of or engaged in activities hostile to the security of the State, such individual person shall not be entitled to claim such rights and privileges under the present Convention as would, if exercised in the favour of such individual person, be prejudicial to the security of such State.

Where in occupied territory an individual protected person is detained as a spy or saboteur, or as a person under definite suspicion of activity hostile to the security of the Occupying Power, such person shall, in those cases where absolute military security so requires, be regarded as having forfeited rights of communication under the present Convention.

In each case, such persons shall nevertheless be treated with humanity and, in case of trial, shall not be deprived of the rights of fair and regular trial prescribed by the present Convention. They shall also be granted the full rights and privileges of a protected person under the present Convention at the earliest date consistent with the security of the State or Occupying Power, as the case may be.

So, uniformed soldiers, civilians wearing an identifiable marker and those openly carrying weapons are protected.

Terrorists are not.

Hope this clears this up, again.
 
If the Geneva Convention had been created prior to The Revolution, colonists fighting for the freedom of the now United States of America would be classified as illegal combatants! :eek:

GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH!!!!
 
only if we didn't win.
No way! We kicked those pussy English in the nuts and sent them back with their tails between their legs. :lol:
"And take your fuckin' pansy-ass tea back with you!", anonymous colonist combatant to the retreating British troops.
 
If the Geneva Convention had been created prior to The Revolution, colonists fighting for the freedom of the now United States of America would be classified as illegal combatants!

You don't think that George found them so?
 
If the Geneva Convention had been created prior to The Revolution, colonists fighting for the freedom of the now United States of America would be classified as illegal combatants! :eek:

GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH!!!!

Actually, the Continental Army, under George Washington, would not be. Most militias of the time wouldn't be, either.
 
Actually, the Continental Army, under George Washington, would not be. Most militias of the time wouldn't be, either.
Rarely did the militia have uniforms. Many of them were farmers who took up their own arms to fight the occupying British Army and drive them from this soil.
 
The attempt to portray the Continental Army as illegal combatants
is wholly fallacious. OK it’s just downright silly!

Golly Gee Whiz Val,
did England sign the Geneva convention prior to the start of the American Revolution?
 
Rarely did the militia have uniforms. Many of them were farmers who took up their own arms to fight the occupying British Army and drive them from this soil.


True, but all other requirements were met. If you notice, militias are also covered under the GC...for specifically that reason.

2) Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:[
(a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
(b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
(c) that of carrying arms openly;
(d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

vis-a-vis, a fixed, distinctive sign...which would include flags and/or banners, i.e. Don't Tread on Me/Son's of Liberty

That rule could also extend to all of them wearing the same style of hat...which would make it a uniform. ;)
 
True, but all other requirements were met. If you notice, militias are also covered under the GC...for specifically that reason.



vis-a-vis, a fixed, distinctive sign...which would include flags and/or banners, i.e. Don't Tread on Me/Son's of Liberty

That rule could also extend to all of them wearing the same style of hat...which would make it a uniform. ;)
Ooh... the fashionable, pointy, 3-sided hat. :D
 
It always amazes me that the concept of illegal combatants is beyond comprehension for some people. Maybe this will help. If your country is invaded and you organize a resistance, carry out open, albeit geurella warfare, against the invading combatants, your are legal under the GC. If your country is invaded and you blow up schools with your neighbor's children in it, you are illegal. Does that clear it up any? *sigh* Didn't think so.
 
It always amazes me that the concept of illegal combatants is beyond comprehension for some people. Maybe this will help. If your country is invaded and you organize a resistance, carry out open, albeit geurella warfare, against the invading combatants, your are legal under the GC. If your country is invaded and you blow up schools with your neighbor's children in it, you are illegal. Does that clear it up any? *sigh* Didn't think so.
Off hand, I'd say that a good chunk of the people who blew up school got picked up, usually with a dust-bin..and you can call them whatever you like..they're dead and don't care. (Suicide bombers, eh).

Those 'arrested' and detained are another story. Many are in Gitmo for killing GI's (which would make them legal and protected under the GC as POWs), or on suspition alone..and are being interrogated in order to come up with a reason for calling them illegal combattants and making them legal arrests post facto - which make them ??

http://www.defenselink.mil/pubs/foi/detainees/detainee_list.pdf

Approximately 750 suspects have been held at Guantánamo Bay. Approximately 250 have been released, or transferred to the custody of their native countries. Some of these were then quickly released, since there was no evidence of involvement in any crimes. The United States government continues to classify many of these released detainees as "illegal combatants". As of December 2008, around 50-60 detainees have been cleared for release, but have not actually been released due to difficulties in repatriating them.[7] The unrepatriated include ethnic Uighurs who were training to fight for independence from the Chinese government in Xinjiang province, and who are now wanted by the Chinese authorities.[7]
Individuals with "SAMWL" are listed on the Saudi Arabian most wanted list, released in February 2009.
Detail about suicides and attempted suicides is at Guantanamo suicide attempts.
 
The Uighurs can not be handed back to China, IMO... China has been imprisoning the Uighurs unjustly for years and these will likely be executed.
 
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