Iran draws line in sand and threatens the US

[flavio]

My comment sheds light on your obsession with logical fallacies lately. Definitely not in the same league as implying alcohol abuse.

That's one way to look at it. Another way is that you implied (with sarcasm) that I can't reason ever on any subject except topics that slam Bush. Not computers, video games, cars, women, turtles, snowboarding, exercise, money, crime, business, ...nothing. Hardly in the same league as implying temporary intoxication.

So anyway, why don't we cut this crap out. I'm sure you have something intelligent and thoughtful to say about the subject. You usually do...even if i don't agree sometimes.

Lately you've been just jumping in with useless remarks and insults like Winky does. I'm sure that's not what you're aspiring to.

 

[Winky]

WHEN YOU CARE ENOUGH......

Little Melissa comes home from first grade and tells her father that
they learned about the history of Valentine's Day.

"Since Valentine's Day is for a Christian saint and we're Jewish," she
asks, "will God get mad at me for giving someone a valentine?"

Melissa's father thinks a bit, then says "No, I don't think God would
get mad. Who do you want to give a valentine to?"

"Osama Bin Laden," she says.

"Why Osama Bin Laden?" her father asks, in shock.

"Well," she says, "I thought that if a little American Jewish girl could
have enough love to give Osama a valentine, he might start to think that
maybe we're not all bad, and maybe start loving people a little."

"And if other kids saw what I did and sent valentines to Osama, he'd
love everyone a lot. And then he'd start going all over the place to
tell everyone how much he loved them and how he didn't hate anyone
anymore."

Her father's heart swells with pride and he looks at his daughter with
newfound pride. "Melissa, that's the most wonderful thing I've ever
heard!"

"I know," Melissa says. "And once that gets him out in the open, the
Marines could blow the shit out of him."

 

[catocom]

It's the US dollar as a standard for oil trade vs. switching to the EURO as the standard that is the threat.

Much more detailed explanation here...........

You mentioned Saudi Arabia's oil production capacity. i was wondering how that related to the story.

Geez, now you don't think we even have people that can convert the numbers
between a dollar and a euro?
I see no way it can be a threat.

and you actually expect me to believe some driggle from a site called "ratical.org"? I really don't think you have heard Anything I've said
about internet sites, in earlier threads. (or either a bad memory)
The same way that what gonz said.

Lets check a few facts first...Since the American Oil Companies have been booted out of the Middle East, in favor of OPEC & the US is one of the smallest direct buyers of OPEC oil...in favor of more regional crude (say Mexico & Canada) why shoud we give a rats ass if EUROPE has gas problems & wants to protect their tax base? They use far more Arab crude than we do.

Yes, we all know it's actually in a giant tube & all the crude gets mixed together but I'm trying to stay on topic

There's other oil. Why the hell would we want to invade THOSE counties for oil?
Eh nevermind, forget I asked. Already been there, and I don't feel like continuing
the endless cycle on that one.

 

[chcr]

(Note: the dollar declined 17% against the euro in 2002.)

It will no doubt come as a surprise to you that the dollar fluctuates constantly compared to other currencies. Actually, changing the oil standard to euros does have the potential to affect the US economy negatively. It's hardly the panic situation the some members of the economic press want you to think it is but it's possible. They're in the business of selling newpapers, magazines, webspace, etc., not in the business of accuracy. Just watch how the "Bulls" and the "Bears" take the exact same information and come up with completely different conclusions. The idea that the impact won't be significant is just not sensational enough. The simple fact is that the world economy is predicated on the US economy. No one outside the US particularaly likes that, but it remains a fact and these people (by and large) are not idiots. Changing the oil standard form the dollar to the euro will not significantly affect this regardless of what the doomsayers report.

"The end is neer."

What, again????

 

[The Other One]

The Libbies want to know what is the President's REAL agenda in all of this...

And, and, and how can the U.S. possibly have enough military to fight on TWO fronts.....

And, and, and, and who are we to say that Iran CAN'T have nukes? Who does Bush think he is anyway, KING of the WORLD?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...ixnewstop.html

US prepares military blitz against Iran's nuclear sites
By Philip Sherwell in Washington
(Filed: 12/02/2006)

Strategists at the Pentagon are drawing up plans for devastating bombing raids backed by submarine-launched ballistic missile attacks against Iran's nuclear sites as a "last resort" to block Teheran's efforts to develop an atomic bomb.

"This is more than just the standard military contingency assessment," said a senior Pentagon adviser. "This has taken on much greater urgency in recent months."

Iran was last weekend reported to the United Nations Security Council by the International Atomic Energy Agency for its banned nuclear activities. Teheran reacted by announcing that it would resume full-scale uranium enrichment - producing material that could arm nuclear devices.

The White House says that it wants a diplomatic solution to the stand-off, but President George W Bush has refused to rule out military action and reaffirmed last weekend that Iran's nuclear ambitions "will not be tolerated".

In Teheran yesterday, crowds celebrating the anniversary of the 1979 Islamic revolution chanted "Nuclear technology is our inalienable right" and cheered Mr Ahmadinejad when he said that Iran may reconsider membership of the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

He was defiant over possible economic sanctions.

 

[catocom]

It will no doubt come as a surprise to you that the dollar fluctuates constantly compared to other currencies. Actually, changing the oil standard to euros does have the potential to affect the US economy negatively. It's hardly the panic situation the some members of the economic press want you to think it is but it's possible.

All money from all nations fluctuate in the market, they trade um all the time...
Wall street...Asian, Euro...they are all moving, all the time.
And Every change in any kind of trade has a "potential" impact, but I don't
personally think this will be that great.

 

[flavio]

Geez, now you don't think we even have people that can convert the numbers
between a dollar and a euro?
I see no way it can be a threat.

There's other oil. Why the hell would we want to invade THOSE counties for oil?
Eh nevermind, forget I asked. Already been there, and I don't feel like continuing
the endless cycle on that one.

I don't know that you're reading the articles fully. The article is not about being able to exchange a Euro for a dollar or invading countries for oil.

It's about the dollar being backed by oil in much the same way as it used to be backed by the gold standard. I assume you're aware that going off the gold standard has had tremendous economic effect i many countries.

Here's another article that explains the idea well.

Here's a key paragraph....

"In 1971, as it became clearer and clearer that the U.S Government would not be able to buy back its dollars in gold, it made in 1972-73 an iron-clad arrangement with Saudi Arabia to support the power of the House of Saud in exchange for accepting only U.S. dollars for its oil. The rest of OPEC was to follow suit and also accept only dollars. Because the world had to buy oil from the Arab oil countries, it had the reason to hold dollars as payment for oil. Because the world needed ever increasing quantities of oil at ever increasing oil prices, the world’s demand for dollars could only increase. Even though dollars could no longer be exchanged for gold, they were now exchangeable for oil."

you actually expect me to believe some driggle from a site called "ratical.org"? I really don't think you have heard Anything I've said
about internet sites, in earlier threads

energybulletin.net a better name? I understand reluctance to accept proof of something from non-major news source or a biased site like WND. This wasn't posted as proof of anything it's a theory to think about and discuss is that really a problem?

 

[flavio]

It will no doubt come as a surprise to you that the dollar fluctuates constantly compared to other currencies. Actually, changing the oil standard to euros does have the potential to affect the US economy negatively.

It will no doubt come as a surprise to you that coming off gold and silver standards has had tremendous feconomic effects on many countries.

Read about in Wikipedia...

Here's an interesting part:

"In the international gold standard imbalances in international trade were rectified by requiring nations to pay accounts in gold. A country in deficit would have to pay its debts in gold thus depleting gold reserves and would therefore have to reduce its money supply. This would cause prices to deflate, reducing economic activity and, consequently, demand would fall. The resulting fall in demand would reduce imports; thus theoretically the deficit would be rectified when the nation was again importing less than it exported. This led to a constant pressure to close economies in the face of currency drains in what critics called "beggar thy neighbor" policies. Such zero-sum gold standard systems showed periodic imbalances which had to be corrected by rapid falls in output.

In practice however this could seriously destabilize the economy of countries which ran a trade deficit, because people tended to make a run on the bank to retrieve their money before gold reserves were exported, thus causing banks to collapse and wiping out savings. Bank runs and failures were a common feature of life during the period when the gold standard was the established economic system. It also created a counter-cyclical effect, as governments taxed trade, they accumulated gold and silver coin, which reduced the monetary base for the private economy. This paradox lead to "money droughts" and inflation, as governments taxed, often to pay for wars, and paid in coin, while the velocity of money decreased in the private economy as individuals hedged against the uncertain political situation by hoarding gold. Each attempt to introduce paper money was met, sooner or later, with either over-printing of money and the resulting collapse of the "fiat" money, including paper francs, continentals printed by the pre-Constitutional US Congress and various "bubbles". Or it would create the demand by the government to be paid only in specie, which devalued the existing paper money."

 

[catocom]

I don't know that you're reading the articles fully. The article is not about being able to exchange a Euro for a dollar or invading countries for oil.

It's about the dollar being backed by oil in much the same way as it used to be backed by the gold standard. I assume you're aware that going off the gold standard has had tremendous economic effect i many countries.

Ok, I guess you got me there. When dod we go off the gold std.?

but if it's not about those other things, why are they mentioned?

 

[Gonz]

We went off the gold standard about 2 decades ago Cat. It's not an oil standard now as some would like to hint at.

 

[catocom]

seems like I did hear something about it, come to think of it.
Old habits die hard sometimes.

but I'd still like to know...

but if it's not about those other things, why are they mentioned?

So what IS the "story" supposed to be about, or convey Flav?
In 10 words or less.

 

[Gonz]

Two guesses at the first one deosn't count

 

[catocom]

I already took my first guess...

it just looks to me like another....
"The evil US wants to control the oil in the middle east"
story.

My second guess is they want us to drink the cool-aid.

 

[Winky]

 

[Gonz]

"mmmm. kool-aid"

 

[chcr]

It will no doubt come as a surprise to you that coming off gold and silver standards has had tremendous feconomic effects on many countries.

1. In case you haven't noticed, wikipedia is not an acceptable reference source.
2. The limited understanding of world economics you can pick up from spending a few moments surfing the net probably doesn't qualify you to discuss them at length, but never mind that.

When we went off the gold standard, it was going to destroy the US economy. The strength of the deutschmark was going to destroy the US economy. The strength of the yen was going to destroy the US economy. The introduction of the euro was going to destroy the US economy. Iran changing their oil standard from dollars to euros is going to destroy the US economy.

Sense a pattern yet?

The end is neer

What again????

 

[catocom]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to chcr again.

By George, I think you cleared the rest of it up there for me chic. Thanks.
See I dunno why some people can't say things short, and to the point, to
be easier to understand.

It seems whoever is in power here, the other side always accuses them of fear tactics.
Hillary did it just the other day, and I don't know how many times the Dems
have been accused of it in past years.
I do see it on both sides, but this one falls into the null/void file IMO.

 

[chcr]

See I dunno why some people can't say things short, and to the point.

It's really embarassing to be congratulated for something I hardly ever do.

 

[catocom]

Don't sell yourself short man.
As opposed to the heavy-duty cut, and paste jobs I've seen of late, you are pretty short.

 

[HomeLAN]

He's talking about the end of the gold standard? You mean the shit we did back in 1973? That's now supposed to relate to some sort of current threat?