It's Called "Free Speech"

As a matter of fact Gonz, and please do not take this as an attack, because I don't mean it that way at all. I don't think I have ever met someone so intelligent, yet so unwilling to even accept the possibility of learning something contrary to your personal beliefs. I am sure you'd say its making a stand, I would answer it with this:

Herbert Spencer said:
There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation.
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Believe it or not, I was once a Reagan conservative. I have learned a lot since then.
 
I look at all sides. Then I make a decision. The decision is based on what's best for me, my family & my country, in that order.
 
I don't have a problem with business making a profit. What I have a problem with is businesses exploiting folks in barely legal schemes for profit. Insurance is simply legalized organized crime. Health care is a different issue. It is a human interest and it should not be looked at as a means to cash in in my opinion. I am all for tort reform, it should be a necessary part of this process, but the insurance companies should not be able to deny care like they do. Perhaps they would make less money but as for disappearing, well that's just alarmism.
 
randomJACKASS said:
Did someone say something worthwhile? I guess not.
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Gee. You're already starting down the path that got you ridiculed...

markjs said:
Let me just say my experience with it is extensive, (on two continents and four nations) and I know at least four local physicians here who favor it (none that I know of who don't favor some variation of it). I've experienced no more waiting than standard American typical amounts. Why don't you tell us your personal horror stories with it? You can't can you, because you have none personally do you? There are some disadvantages, but all nothing is perfect, and the advantages far outweigh the pitfalls. The anti socialized medicine commercials are gross exaggerations to downright lies, paid for by the filthy rich insurance industry that has been exploiting Americans for so long. Unfortunately most Americans are stupid enough to buy it. and most anything the idiot tube tells them to believe.
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I'm in the military, dude. Our system sucks. I've been dealing with it for 20 years, on 3 continents and in 12 different countries. This is the model for most socialized medicine schemes being floated about. If I get sick, God forbid, it would take a week to see a doctor at the minimum...provided that the PA is knowledgable enough to figure out if I need to see an MD or not. That's what government health care means to me. You may persist on your diatribe about how different is somehow better because of your limited scope of reasoning. You are a perfect example of your last sentence...

markjs said:
Unfortunately, Americans are good and even genius about a great many things, and there is much that is great about America, but I imagine if any country can monumentally fuck up socialized medicine we will be the ones to do it.

The biggest failing of American culture is it's inability to stop feeling superior long enough to look at other nation's successes and learn from them. Hell for years many Americans have feared the success of Japan. The sad part is that few of them see that Japan is not as huge of an innovator as so many seem to think. What has made Japan successful economically is, more than anything, their ability to take American innovations and improve on them. We design a good mouse trap, and they improve on it and sell more of them back to us.

Why I just wasted more keystrokes trying to break through to the damned is beyond me though. In debates like this you are either preaching to the choir, or to those who prefer to go straight down the garden path to hell because in their minds it is easier.
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Nice. In one post since you 'came out', you've managed to return to your ignorant and subversive behavior.
 
Wow, you can see a doc in a week? Must be nice.

You know the thing everyone misses is that the bills being discussed don't switch everyone that likes their healthcare. Just creates another healthcare option.

OMG. Keep whining.
 
Gato_Solo said:
Gee. You're already starting down the path that got you ridiculed...



I'm in the military, dude. Our system sucks. I've been dealing with it for 20 years, on 3 continents and in 12 different countries. This is the model for most socialized medicine schemes being floated about. If I get sick, God forbid, it would take a week to see a doctor at the minimum...provided that the PA is knowledgable enough to figure out if I need to see an MD or not. That's what government health care means to me. You may persist on your diatribe about how different is somehow better because of your limited scope of reasoning. You are a perfect example of your last sentence...



Nice. In one post since you 'came out', you've managed to return to your ignorant and subversive behavior.
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No, once you knew who I was for sure, your attitude changed and your mind closed even farther than it already was. You had me on ignore then. Please do so again. You have nothing to post worth hearing. You never have, you never will. If you can see a doctor in a week it's far better than most normal folks with normal insurance. I know in order to feel better about your country you have to believe we are always right and the rest of the world is inferior, but it doesn't make it so.
 
That's funny, "subversive behavior", so free speech and free government only applies if Gato agrees. What a lame ass world that would be!
 
spike said:
You know the thing everyone misses is that the bills being discussed don't switch everyone that likes their healthcare. Just creates another healthcare option.

OMG. Keep whining.
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Hmmmm. Your comments seem rather fishy and misinformative. Is that intentional? You get switched if the private insurer changes anything in the policy. Anything.

It is very obvious that any "grandfathered" plan is to be set in stone and cannot change premiums or terms of the contract. That would also mean that plans cannot add new benefits. If you change jobs you are under the government plan regardless. This is clearly designed to cause private insurance plans to disappear.

Page 26, section 102


SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE.

(a) Grandfathered Health Insurance Coverage Defined- Subject to the succeeding provisions of this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable coverage under this division, the term `grandfathered health insurance coverage' means individual health insurance coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:

(1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT-

(A) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1.

(2) LIMITATION ON CHANGES IN TERMS OR CONDITIONS- Subject to paragraph (3) and except as required by law, the issuer does not change any of its terms or conditions, including benefits and cost-sharing, from those in effect as of the day before the first day of Y1.

(3) RESTRICTIONS ON PREMIUM INCREASES- The issuer cannot vary the percentage increase in the premium for a risk group of enrollees in specific grandfathered health insurance coverage without changing the premium for all enrollees in the same risk group at the same rate, as specified by the Commissioner.

(2) LIMITATION ON CHANGES IN TERMS OR CONDITIONS- Subject to paragraph (3) and except as required by law, the issuer does not change any of its terms or conditions, including benefits and cost-sharing, from those in effect as of the day before the first day of Y1.:

(3) RESTRICTIONS ON PREMIUM INCREASES- The issuer cannot vary the percentage increase in the premium for a risk group of enrollees in specific grandfathered health insurance coverage without changing the premium for all enrollees in the same risk group at the same rate, as specified by the Commissioner.
 
‘‘(D) enable the real-time (or near real-time) determination of an individual’s financial responsibility at the point of service and, to the extent possible, prior to service, including whether the individual is eligible for a specific service with a specific physician at a specific facility, which may include utilization of a machine-readable health plan beneficiary identification card;

‘‘(E) enable, where feasible, near real-time adjudication of claims;

‘‘(F) provide for timely acknowledgment, response, and status reporting applicable to any electronic transaction deemed appropriate by the Secretary;
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Uncle Sam has immediate access to your money, from this day forward.

Sounds like a plan...not an American plan but certainly a plan.
 
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