It's time

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
Some people around herre have complained about being lumped in with those they disagree with even though they share the same or many similar values. Then this comes along & says it best:

chcr said:
Liberal and conservative are arbitrarily imposed labels...

There are clear cut differences between the two. Republican & Democrat are arbitrarily imposed labels, granted. There is a core value difference between liberal & conservative. There is a ideological difference than is not at all arbitrary. It may vary per individual but the core beliefs are nearly constant.

A conservative believes in the power of the individual. They believe in limited government interference, whether helping flood victims or taking taxes to pay for roads. Stay out of our life & stay out of our business is a motto of the conservative. We don't need "equal rights" because they are code for special rights. We believe in letting the man (or woman) prove themselves by deed. Charity begins at home, not in DC. If our brother is not being supported by the family you can bet there's a reason. Not all lifestyles are okay. Not all beliefs are morally equal. Things are black & white. You can muck it up with detail but at its heart, it's good or it's bad.

Liberals believe in government (the collective). They see a need for the group to help the individual instead of the reverse. Business is out to get us is a common complaint. They only want to make money, so lets take some. Let's limit their potential by puting lots & lots & lots of limitations on what they can do, where they can do it, when its allowed & who must participate. They clamor for rights but expect no responsibilities. They feel the pureness of thought outweighs the lack of accomplishment. The general feeling is; all is okay & should be allowed. If it's bad today, with sufficient explanation & encouragement (and outright litigation) it'll be made okay.

These are only a few of the differences & I'm sure many more will be presented here. A safe rule of thumb to tell the difference is, if teh thought begins with "I feel..." it's liberal & if it begins with "I think..." it's conservative.
 
A safe rule of thumb to tell the difference is, if teh thought begins with "I feel..." it's liberal & if it begins with "I think..." it's conservative.

Now that's bear-baiting. :D

*Decides right now to stay outta this one*

:lurk:
 
Perhaps but it's also true. Listen to how people speak...it's inevitable.
 
Heck, then I think you must feel I'm a conservative, even though I, like most of the people in America, am truly neither.
 
:lurk: I'm waiting this one out too...mostly because I can't figure out how I can belong to both groups and neither, based on your definition. It's too black and white
 
chcr said:
Heck, then I think you must feel I'm a conservative, even though I, like most of the people in America, am truly neither.

chcr, I consider myself to be neither also, although, by some of the
"standards" of the extremest, I think you are about as far left, as I am right,
which doesn't seem to be very far off center at all.
(it seems there are only a few issues we disagree on) ;)
 
I was just directed to this...so I guess I gotta respond.

interesting...but the last bit off a tad, for me anyway. I myself definitely do feel first, BUT then I sit and think with both hats, and think until I've hit my standard of logical and fair...and then I know what I feel. Taking a position for me out of bed isn't ever without a great deal of thought.

They clamor for rights but expect no responsibilities. They feel the pureness of thought outweighs the lack of accomplishment.
This statement seems to be the usual tripe of picking on small parts of what the fringe groups clamor for, rather than the ideal as a whole.

same old shit different smell :shrug:

I am me, I am not some political label. I have my own thoughts and beliefs and feelings, and *gasp* ideas, and I come to those through reflection on what I see and experience, not through what some political party/group tells me I should believe. If those beliefs happen to stick me into some slot that I don't give 2 shits about, it's still nothing to do with me. I'll vote the party that will come closest to my ideals, whatever that party may be. Some of you may be shocked to learn that in the last two provincial elections, it was Conservative. Federally, it's been Liberal till now, mainly because I believe in the international relations that the party supports.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanyway...I don't look at people by party first, I look at people as people, and their politics really have nothing at all to do with me.

Some of y'all on both sides of whatever imaginary fence are writing off and blowing off some very cool people with good and interesting ideas cause of some preconceptions which just aren't true, and were there such a thing, it'd be a sin. But, as things stand, it's just sad. But I suppose that's just more Stupid Human Tricks.
 
This time get it straight!

Things are black & white.

Les are you intentionally dodging the issue
or do you REALLY fail to grasp the concept.
You may really be a Conservative and don't even
know it.

Re-read carefully Gonz's original post and think about it.
It defines the difference
between Capitalism and Collectivism.

Things are black & white. There is no Gray.
 
Re: This time get it straight!

I grasp the concept quite clearly, however I don't agree with it. Perhaps I'm an aberration. I take each individual issue and take a stance on it. Period. I don't give a flying fuck what party happens to have the same position as me, and I'm not going to constantly sit and check to find out what the majority of my beliefs at the time make me seem to be. :shrug:

I don't understand the importance or significance of pegging people one or the other, nor do I in most cases believe that it is possible, nor do I believe that there is no grey area in this. To the contrary, it seems to me that the grey area is far more encompassing than the black or white areas.

Call me what you want, if I'm liberal, commie, socialist, or even ultra rightwing whatever, write me and my beliefs off because of what you think I am if that's how shallow you want to be, it doesn't really matter in the end. I know what I am and that is me, myself and I.
 
Re: This time get it straight!

I take party stance on nothing. I have no party in which to participate in a stand. Conservative is not Republican. Liberal is not Democrat. There is a tendency to lean & the federal lawmakers are easiest to pigeonhole. Indiviuals, removed from politics, are hardest. However, given a selection of options to a given question, there will be people that are time after time after time pointed to one side or another. I've yet to meet the person who hits the center square on every issue.
 
"I take each individual issue and take a stance on it"
Yes, as do I. The determination I make is based on my personal value system. Everyone does that. Let's get beyond the left right argument and get down to the brass tacks as they say...

"write me and my beliefs off because of what you think I am if that's how shallow you want to be"
It is not shallow to have the temerity to believe in oneself strongly enough to make decisions as to what one believes to be right or wrong, not some wishy washy gray.

Les have the personal self-confidence to know that you are Right.


"seems to me that the grey area is far more encompassing than the black or white areas"

Well then honey you are a Liberal!!!

Tell me about this gray area? Adultery falls squarely in the gray area, just ask our former President Slick Willie!!
I personally see that as a completely BLACK thing.

Tell me about the gray areas and I will help you to see them clearly as black or white. Funny thing is the only time someone wants to lead you to believe that a thing is 'gray' is when it's really something that is wrong and they want make it OK.
 
Winky, you've intentionally misunderstood what I've written. If I'm mistaken and you're genuinely mistaken, I apologize, and here is your opportunity to reread and try again.
 
It's about time the Lefties admit it.

Oh no I understand all to well...

Do I have to analyze each and every sentence?

"I don't understand the importance or significance of pegging people one or the other, nor do I in most cases believe that it is possible,"

That is fairly clear.

It speaks directly to an underlying personal value system.

I'm not saying you are wrong, just that I understand what the foundation of the folks on the other side base their values on...
 
It may vary per individual but the core beliefs are nearly constant.

As I pointed out in the opening post, there is a situation & it's either right or it's wrong. Anyone can come along & heap innuendo into the specific until mucks up the waters & clarity has left the building. It become harder & harder to see the truth because so much has been added & sifting through it all is work. Strip away all the crap.

I don't care that Mr Schnoz took a mistress because his dying wife said it is okay as she is dying & feels terrible & can't do her wifely duties. He is still in the wrong. Taking the little information I just made up, Stories could be written that would have you crying your eyes out & sympathising with the devil, Mr Schnoz. You'd swear he was an angel & his wife was God. When the simple truth is, he is an adulterer. Black & white.
 
This time get it straight!

I am still waiting for those gray area things
I will throw in one of my Fav's
abortion
I might be farther Right than Bush but I'm Pro-fetus murder and here's why.
Until I held my newborn Son in my arms at age 28
I thought abortion was an acceptable means of birth control but I realized it is nothing but murder.
But I'm all about the government not having any right to tell a woman she can not evacuate the contents of her own womb.

She should have the right to choose to murder her unborn child. That's black and white. That is not the position of the conservative side but it doesn't mean I'm not a conservative because as the article says:
A conservative believes in the power of the individual. They believe in limited government interference,
 
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