keep buying Chinese crap at Wal-Mart

Hella yeah Rammed earth 'cept we nevah gonna see them
standard in sub-divisions lololol

Yes the supposed cost of hydrocarbon-based energy will seem to rise
but the replacement clearly won't be solar.

Alternative forms a of power ain't miles and miles of solar collectors and windmills,
think aboot it, both are inefficient forms of catching power
(especially wind power heh)(God think about the physics behind that one)
generated by a ball of glowing gas
93,000,000 miles from here.

Clearly one quick down and dirty method of filling the gap
between carbon based power and Fusion
(er sumthin' like it) will be to use power FAR
more efficiently and make it with fission reactors.

I am not willing to spend fidy to save five.

I like to save mooney now and in the future.
My guess is, other than the fricken A/C unit I
must have here in Hell to avoid vaporizing
I use less energy than danged near anyone here!

At night my house normally uses less than 500 Watts in toto!

I've got that M-Power thang and can see my instantaneous
energy usage the widdle box is right here next to mah PeeCee

use2.JPG

use1.JPG


it is vaguely reminiscent of the 70's whole house
power management systems heh
 
chcr said:
That's the real point, if it costs you 50,000 bucks more to build but saves you 5,000 per year then it breaks even in ten years..
Click to expand...

C'Mon Big guy have I been giving you more credit than is due?

inflate my mortgage (principal amount) by fidy thou
(take it up the tush in amortized interest charges)
think of the increased maintenance costs?

most peeps move every seven years

If you invested fidy thou in cash it would beat the dickens outta a 'solar investment'.

You do know solar cells 'degrade' i.e. wear out, right?

Besides the real cost of energy has remained surprisingly cheap since the 70's
10 to 15K used to buy you a house
3-4 a car, you know our dollars are worth a mere fraction
of what they once where.

Yep, cheap power is the fuel of our modern age.
 
You're still thinking in terms of seventies levels of efficiency. The state of the art has improved exponentially since then. Oh, and FYI, without the government subsidies, nuclear fission is very expensive (more than wind at current techological levels, perhaps more than solar), not to mention the political ramifications. Wrkable fusion is at least a century and billions upon billions of dollars away. The real problem is that the current utility infrastructure has it's heart set on fission because they know they can control it. They can control the others too, but they're slow to recognize it. They own the grid after all. Until the next technology becomes protable enough ro single dwelling generation we'll still be dependant on the existing utilities (kinda scary if you lived in California). I'm not saying the next technology will or won't be solar or wind, but they're both a lot more palatable politically than fission (the Russians saw to that with Chernyobl). The cost differential is practically non-existant absent federal subsidies. They're also a lot farther along than fusion. Whatever happens won't happen in our lifetimes anyway. :shrug:

FYI, the sun has to shine about 30% of the time at current levels of efficiency to keep you in electricity 24/7 with a moderate load (I don't suppose that includes my six computers, does it?) and a collector the same square footage as your house. Most expensive part is the storage unit. The ones I've seen are glorified UPS units for server farms. What'll really happen (IMO, of course) is that someone will start marketing a kit sometime in the next twenty years, and they'll start popping up here and there. Kinda like VOIP is now.
 
Oh My where do I start?

I'm not certain whether you lack a grasp of the science behind all this
or you so deeply entrenched in the Liberal mindset you are selectively blinded to the realities?

hep me out with this quandary and then I can selectively refute your positions.

Really Dood I wanna like ya
but are making it impossible with statements like:

seventies levels of efficiency
without the government subsidies, nuclear fission is very expensive
Workable fusion is at least a century and billions upon billions of dollars away
FYI, the sun has to shine about 30% of the time at current levels of efficiency to keep you in electricity 24/7 with a moderate load
Most expensive part is the storage unit
What'll really happen (IMO, of course) is that someone will start marketing a kit sometime in the next twenty years, and they'll start popping up here and there

sheesh
 
*sigh* Why did I even try, you deliberately misinterpret anything I say (at least I hope it's deliberate). :grinno:
 
mebbe cuz you is wrong?
(of course it is deliberate!)

lessee

seventies levels of efficiency

yep they were lousy then but today the best they have
achieved today falls below 30%

without the government subsidies, nuclear fission is very expensive

Due solely to government regulation (read increased costs)
Nuke power is bought into parity with hydrocarbon power generation costs.

Workable fusion is at least a century and billions upon billions of dollars away

Billions yes but a hundred a years No Way. We could have it inna fraction of the time if we put forth a Apollo space program type of rush on it but why? Not when we are swimming in a sea of dirt-cheap oil and coal?

FYI, the sun has to shine about 30% of the time at current levels of efficiency to keep you in electricity 24/7 with a moderate load

Um no the sun don't shine at night or on cloudy days
and there are three type of collection methods
the two most efficient don't lend themselves to 'home generation' farms.
And this relates directly to the storage issue.

Most expensive part is the storage unit

OK we are back to the TOTAL lack of efficiency inherent in this whole procedure.
So you begin with a less than 30% efficient solar cell
now you've got DC current. Unless you plan to convert the entire country's home power usage to DC (which is the only way this would work) you've got to convert this to A/C
another BIG source of loss (in the conversion)
Now we simply do not have (in the 70's or today) any way to store the power. You lose when you put it into storage and you lose getting it back out. (shucks you lose while it is in there too heh heh)
I could run all but my Fridge and the A/C unit off of a moderately sized solar array in my backyard if I used DC LED lighting and all my comps and TV’s and everything else
were converted to run off of DC. Forget about the clothes dryer or any other high
amperage needs.
But this would require a means to store 1-2 kilowatt\hours during the 'dark time'.
This part is the killer of the whole private solar generation scheme.


What'll really happen (IMO, of course) is that someone will start marketing a kit sometime in the next twenty years, and they'll start popping up here and there

You can buy them today.
No one does.
cuz hmmm guess why?
They cost insane amounts you still require a hook-up the regular grid and
heh heh the power off the grid is dirt cheap!













Workable fusion is at least a century and billions upon billions of dollars away
FYI, the sun has to shine about 30% of the time at current levels of efficiency to keep you in electricity 24/7 with a moderate load
Most expensive part is the storage unit
What'll really happen (IMO, of course) is that someone will start marketing a kit sometime in the next twenty years, and they'll start popping up here and there
 
Solar cells that don't degrade over a 50 years service life
that are 98% efficient

Room Temp superconduction to remove nearly ALL losses

conversion of all equipment to DC voltage

a ninety nine percent plus efficient means of inverting excess power to put it on the national power grid and SOME means of load balancing the durned thing.

A storage 'machine' that has nearly zero loss going in and out and a capacity unimaginable by today’s standards.

and all this is cheap enough to make everyone want to buy it

Thar you go Buddy
 
crap with that system
we could shut down all the Nuke
coal oil nat. gas power plants and
keep he lights on forever!
 
I didn't say the cells are 30% efficient. :shrug:

PS, You do know that the sun does shine on cloudy days, right? Worst sunburn I ever had I got on a cloudy day.
 
All I know is the solar cells I've played with
had a precipitous power drop off in anything
less than direct perpendicular sunlight.

The key to such a scheme would rest exclusively
on the storage system. It is clearly the key.
 
Backhoe? I own a shovel, pussy. :lol:

Seriously, I was fixin' hot sausage with peppers and onions for a few friends.

Mmm-mmm.. them's good eatin'.
 
1. Do you know what a comma is (hint: ,,,,,,,).
2. Now, (oh look another comma) do you know what it's for?

:p :rofl:
 
If the population of China walked past you, in single file,
the line would never end because of the rate of reproduction.
 
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