Laura Bush supports gay marriage...hilarity ensues
- Thread starter spike
- Start date
OH, that's my money... I errrr... dropped it out of my wallet just a minute ago.
/swipes money from Gonz
spike
New Member
I'm not sure where you're trying to go with this. Fact is Bush didn't account for the loss of tax revenue and the cuts turned into a disaster.
spike
New Member
The government gets money from taxes. What does that have to do with the disaster caused by not accounting for the loss of revenue?
spike
New Member
Lots of people and businesses pay taxes. What does that have to do with the disaster caused by not accounting for the loss of revenue?
Half right. Businesses do not pay taxes. They collect monies, for the government due to law and/or regulation, from their customers to give the government.
OK?
People pay taxes. The money the government has is the peoples money. It was taken from us at the end of a gun.
So, it is not the governments money. Lessening our tax burden is not "paid for". It is not our responsibility to pay for anothers wants. As the tax burden is lifted from the people, as it should be, it's the peoples representatives responsibility to lower spending. They are failing. They fail again if they force us to increase our burden.
Small government is responsible government.
catocom
Well-Known Member
I agree that a smaller government is a better government to have.
However, think about it this way. People pay taxes collectively to pay for infrastructure, military and security, support and services to members of society. If the money, in the form of taxes, is not collected but these things still have to be paid for, then we get... GREECE.
If you can get away with cutting government spending (reducing government) then you can cut the taxes. Supporting 2 wars is not a way to reduce government spending.
Article 1, Section 8 is the extent of their capacity. Or, do we wish to import Socialism?
Incorrect. Greece is a socialist state. They set themselves up to have these expenditures. They are forced, by rule of law, to pay for way too much. The problem with Greece isn't insufficient taxes, it's gross overpayment. In the words of Margaret Thatcher...the problem with socialism is, eventually, you run out of other people money.
Why would you want that?
This is what Article 1, Section 8 says...
"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof."
I can not come up with anything that goes beyond the wording of this section or could not fit into the wording of this section.
The basis of my argument is correct, actually, and you're stating it here: "it's gross overpayment." There would be no overpayment if there were enough taxes to cover the payments. Only 1/3 of Greek citizens pay their due taxes. There is a huge problem with tax evasion in Greece. The riots were not as much about cutting back as it was the tax increase on the middle class. I thought the riots were about cutting benefits and sweet government jobs until I actually looked into who was rioting and why. Yes, there were some who were demonstrating because of the layoff, etc, but the majority of demonstrators were middle class Greeks who are sick of shouldering the tax burden. I think we can all relate to that.
If we are not careful we will all end up just like California and Greece.
spike
New Member
No, that's ridiculous. People and businesses both pay taxes. It's right there in the tax code.
Money is an always moving thing. It doesn't just arbitrarily start with the customer. That would be like me saying people don't pay taxes, they just collect money for the government from their employers.
People and businesses pay taxes. Once it is given to the government it is the governments money which is used to pay for the government operations. If you decrease the taxes without paying for that by reducing the budget you get the disaster that was the Bush tax cuts.
Lessening the tax burden is paid for by reducing the budget to account for it. Yes, Bush failed to lower spending to pay for his tax cuts. It was irresponsible and caused a massive increase of the debt. He failed.
Responsible government is responsible government.
spike
New Member
Greece is not a socialist state. Here is a list of socialist states.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_countries
The problem with capitalism on the other hand is that people are greedy immoral fucks sometimes. As evidenced by the banking fiasco that almost brought our country down.
Educate yourself.
The Constitution mandates the extent of each branch. If it's not there, they can't do it.
Hey look, our future, unless we return our Congress to its limited power, as described in the Consitution.
spike
New Member
I have. You should try it.
Not our future, and limiting or not limiting power is not really high on the list of things that have a huge effect on the economy.
But I agree, we should get rid of some un-Constitutional things like invading foreign countries that are not threatening us, aid to Israel, foreign military bases in countries we are not at war with, maybe standing armies.
"This is a list of countries, past and present, that declared themselves socialist either in their names or their constitutions. No other criteria are used; thus, some or all of these countries may not fit any specific definition of socialism."
So, if your nation does not claim itself as socialist then your nation is not socialist!