Life in da hood?

[AlphaTroll]

You guys are turning the RW into a steaming pile of racist bullshit. Praytell, what is the point of arguing about a goddamned idiot who shot someone? Is it the colour of his skin that made him more prone to violence and killing someone? Is it because he is a rapper? Nope, sorry, I don't buy it. It's like a kiddies playground argument of 'us' (and by implication 'our' musicians and culture and what the fuck ever) VS 'them' (and 'their' music and culture and whatever shit we want to add to the pile).

 

[Gato_Solo]

You guys are turning the RW into a steaming pile of racist bullshit. Praytell, what is the point of arguing about a goddamned idiot who shot someone? Is it the colour of his skin that made him more prone to violence and killing someone? Is it because he is a rapper? Nope, sorry, I don't buy it. It's like a kiddies playground argument of 'us' (and by implication 'our' musicians and culture and what the fuck ever) VS 'them' (and 'their' music and culture and whatever shit we want to add to the pile).

Which is exactly why I'm posting what I'm posting. No culture is exempt from their idiots.

 

[paul_valaru]

as to NWA (the guys with the guns for those of you not in the know) they wrote about what they knew, which was violence etc, btu they potrayed it in a postive "might makes right" way and started gangster rap. They where a role model to a generation that is now grown up, and getting into the music business, they wrote about it, and they even did some stuff, before the record deals, now the fans grown up are the rappers, and still playing tough guy, and the tougher you are the more your record sales go up, and the NEXT generation then grows up and tries to walk the walk.

Forget the few disturbed individuals who would kill anyway and needed an excuse, it is the culture of this genre of rap to be violent, and some (most) buy into it a little bit, some buy into it all the way, west coast east coast BS is the only publicity/marketing ploy that has ever gotten people killed.

(hells angels and rolling stones was not the marketing ploy just a dumb ass mistake on the stones part, and criminal action on the hells angels part)

 

[paul_valaru]

You guys are turning the RW into a steaming pile of racist bullshit. Praytell, what is the point of arguing about a goddamned idiot who shot someone? Is it the colour of his skin that made him more prone to violence and killing someone? Is it because he is a rapper? Nope, sorry, I don't buy it. It's like a kiddies playground argument of 'us' (and by implication 'our' musicians and culture and what the fuck ever) VS 'them' (and 'their' music and culture and whatever shit we want to add to the pile).

Just discussing the culture of violence surronding one particular genre of music. One that is popular with kids of every colour

 

[Gato_Solo]

as to NWA (the guys with the guns for those of you not in the know) they wrote about what they knew, which was violence etc, btu they potrayed it in a postive "might makes right" way and started gangster rap. They where a role model to a generation that is now grown up, and getting into the music business, they wrote about it, and they even did some stuff, before the record deals, now the fans grown up are the rappers, and still playing tough guy, and the tougher you are the more your record sales go up, and the NEXT generation then grows up and tries to walk the walk.

Unfortunately, that's not the entire story. Most who grew up "on the streets" don't want their kids to end up there. The ones who glorify the violence are mostly poseurs, who's only connection to gangsters is watching the media...the same media that plays up the violence. In another thread, I post stories about what's going on here in Iraq, and most of those stories are positive. Which ones do you hear about in the media?

Forget the few disturbed individuals who would kill anyway and needed an excuse, it is the culture of this genre of rap to be violent, and some (most) buy into it a little bit, some buy into it all the way, west coast east coast BS is the only publicity/marketing ploy that has ever gotten people killed.

Most don't buy into it at all. The ones that do are prone to violence and drugs anyway...and that East coast/West coast BS you're talking about wasn't the cause of death or murder. Idiots were.

(hells angels and rolling stones was not the marketing ploy just a dumb ass mistake on the stones part, and criminal action on the hells angels part)

But you give the Stones a pass, even though they were the 'rallying cry', much the same as the East Coast/West coast BS...

 

[Winky]

Tell you whut Alfie I dunno
(or care, you are on the bottom of the werld after all)
about where you are
but a cursory glance at the statistics
in this country clearly shows a dividing line
runnin' right down the 'races'
when it comes to violent crime

now if we could just get them durned Asians
to start killin' more, the rest of us wouldn't look so bad!

 

[AlphaTroll]

Just discussing the culture of violence surronding one particular genre of music. One that is popular with kids of every colour

Except that it was placed in a postion of rap / black music VS other WHITE musicians and what they get up to. If Ozzy had shot someone in public it would have been a discussion along the lines of 'oh look what he did, what is this world coming to, we need stricter gun control blah blah blah, the colour of his skin would not have been the issue.

 

[Gato_Solo]

Tell you whut Alfie I dunno
(or care, you are on the bottom of the werld after all)
about where you are
but a cursory glance at the statistics
in this country clearly shows a dividing line
runnin' right down the 'races'
when it comes to violent crime

now if we could just get them durned Asians
to start killin' more, the rest of us wouldn't look so bad!

Ahhh..that pesky demon of selective enforcement rears it's ugly head again.

 

[Winky]

yup dats it yup yup

 

[paul_valaru]

Unfortunately, that's not the entire story. Most who grew up "on the streets" don't want their kids to end up there. The ones who glorify the violence are mostly poseurs, who's only connection to gangsters is watching the media...the same media that plays up the violence. In another thread, I post stories about what's going on here in Iraq, and most of those stories are positive. Which ones do you hear about in the media?

That is why I used NWA as an example, they where the "real deal" the poseurs speak to the heart of the problem, it's COOL to be a gangster

Most don't buy into it at all. The ones that do are prone to violence and drugs anyway...and that East coast/West coast BS you're talking about wasn't the cause of death or murder. Idiots were.

I agree, the ones who made it up, and the ones played into it

But you give the Stones a pass, even though they were the 'rallying cry', much the same as the East Coast/West coast BS...

Before my time, never heard them used as a rallying cry, They made a DUMB DUMB DUMB desicion that got people killed, I am suprised no one was held crimenally responsable (ignorance is no defence)

 

[AlphaTroll]

Tell you whut Alfie I dunno
(or care, you are on the bottom of the werld after all)
about where you are
but a cursory glance at the statistics
in this country clearly shows a dividing line
runnin' right down the 'races'
when it comes to violent crime

now if we could just get them durned Asians
to start killin' more, the rest of us wouldn't look so bad!

Ag please, don't talk stats of violent crimes to me. I live in one of the most fucking violent countries in the world. And yeah, if you want to take a 'colour' line, most crimes here are committed by blacks. But then please take into account that the large majority of people here are black. Large majority of black people are uneducated, unskilled and poor. You can go round and round and round in the little colour stats ring and still get nowhere. The fact that someone's skin is a certain colour is completely irrelevant.

 

[Gato_Solo]

Before my time, never heard them used as a rallying cry, They made a DUMB DUMB DUMB desicion that got people killed, I am suprised no one was held crimenally responsable (ignorance is no defence)

But it's the exact same thing, innit? People were killed and, 35 years later, it's a non-issue.

 

[paul_valaru]

Except that it was placed in a postion of rap / black music VS other WHITE musicians and what they get up to. If Ozzy had shot someone in public it would have been a discussion along the lines of 'oh look what he did, what is this world coming to, we need stricter gun control blah blah blah, the colour of his skin would not have been the issue.

If Ozzy shot someone it would have been a discussion of how the hell he aimed, he is so fucked up.

the discussion passed well beyond the point of this rapper shooting someone and moved into the realm of the evil of music (play a record backwards) to a genre of music fashion etc that promotes and glorifies violence.

as to white and black, if lenny kravitz shot someone they would be talking about gun control, and if eminem shot someone it would be about what they say about this rapper.

as too racism, it does exist, especially in the media, I don't know about there, but here and in the states a black girl is missing, there is a 30 second blurb about it, a white girl 10 minute updates every half hour, is it right HELL NO, but it is the reality, and hopefully it will change.

 

[Gato_Solo]

yup dats it yup yup

So let's look at this mathematically, and see where I'm coming from. We'll deal with traffic stops, since that's where most of those 'statistics' start...

If a police department stops 20% of drivers 95% of the time (identified as racial profiling), and 10% of those stops lead to something more heinous, then what about the 80% of the population that's stopped only 5% of the time, where 10% of those stops lead to something more heinous?

Oh...we're not going into the repeat offenders, because that skews the statistical analysis.

 

[Winky]

See Alfie thats whut I'm talkin' about
Dee Blacks is 10-13% in this country
and still duh numbers is the same!

 

[Winky]

Ever one raise dey hand dat knows which
countries is the most law abiding, least violent?

 

[paul_valaru]

But it's the exact same thing, innit? People were killed and, 35 years later, it's a non-issue.

and in 2 days this shooting will be a non-issue, it's only when the dead person is famous that it persists.

now Ozzy biting the head off a bat, that never died down, and never will.

back to the discussion at hand, cause I am lost now, is I beleive that Gangster rap is a bad influence on youth, due to the glorifing of violence, while its starts where real, the talking about how life was in the projects, it has taken on an a life of it's own with poseurs further getting away from talking about how bad life like that can be, to promoting it as a lifestyle because it is cool.

 

[AlphaTroll]

Paul, I agree with you for te most part. I was mainly commenting about the fact that the thread stared out, as with so many lately, on a racial tangent. I just think it's getting old fast.

Winkers, you and me need to get together.

 

[Winky]

Yeah if I lived in post apartheid SA
I'd be afraid too...

Hey Gato are you not currently located in a
very violent part of the world?

They are blowing each up over what???

 

[paul_valaru]

Tell you whut Alfie I dunno
(or care, you are on the bottom of the werld after all)
about where you are
but a cursory glance at the statistics
in this country clearly shows a dividing line
runnin' right down the 'races'
when it comes to violent crime

now if we could just get them durned Asians
to start killin' more, the rest of us wouldn't look so bad!

it is a 3 headed monster that one.

1) racial profiling like Gato said, if your gonna stop a black guys 80% of the time for a routine stop 80% of your arrests are gonna be black guys.

2) wealth, unfortunetaly a lot of black people are poor (so are white people, but more black people are poor) and if you got money you don't use a public defender, you get off.

3) where you live if the area you happen to grow up in is economically depressed and has a high amount of violence, and gangs, chances are to survive you will have to join a gang, and gangs tend towards the criminal (this is not a black problem, this is a dense urban area problem, you saw the same thing in new york in the 1800's with an influx of poor irish, many violent irish street gangs)