Matrix thread ONLY FOR THOSE WHO HAVE SEEN IT

Like Oracle said, I think the Twins might be exiled programs.

Hector, if you didn't see Reloaded, you would have missed the Rave and the gratuitous sex scene. :rolleyes: Everyone I've talked to think that whole part blew.

The thing I have about Neo stopping the Sentinels is, why shouldn't he be able to? Isn't he "The One" outside of the Matrix too? Maybe it was just a hint as to the powers he has that he hasn't tapped into yet.

I think he transferred some of his power to Agent Smith when he 'entered him' in the first movie. Which would make for a kick ass battle between them in the next one.
 
well if you saw the trailer for revolutions at the end of the 9 minutes credits it should be a good fight scene. and yes i think the twins are exiled/corrupt programs kind of being controled by the french guy who is a failed/corrupt program himself.
 
Sure the twins are some sort of programs. But why are they so powerful, why do they listen to the French guy, and what was their motivation for coming after them on the highway?

I got the idea that the French guys was sort of a Satan type character in keeping with the religious theme they had going.
 
The choreography was awesome but they pushed the envelope to the point that the trained eye could easily tell when looking at a computer generated image and not a human face. The Architect conversation caught me totally offguard and almost bored me. It was like a shock following the overwheling action scenes. The movie ended much more abruptly than the first with little sense of content other than the hint that now neo has some actual superhuman power outside of the matrix which will undoubtedly carry the third film. Overall it was exactly what i thought it would be, awesome graphics blended with groundbreaking choreography and a storyline that seems mearly a continuation of the first. I was truly dissapointed not to see more of the twins. Overall easily worth $8.25 for the eyecandy alone.
 
The "orgy" added nothing to the story...what was the point?

The twins-the pompous french guy said that vampires, werewolves, etc were glitches &/or old proggies that didn't want to be deleted. These guys reminded me of a ghoul. :shrug:

Was there really a point in the Agent Smith marathon fight? After 5 or 6 replications, isn't the point made?

Good movie..needs to be seen umpteen times to understand it all.
 
OK, it's simple about the twins. The oracle told you as much. "Ghosts, werewolves, and such..." Remember? When the jealous girlfriend killed the first bodyguard, what did she use? Silver bullets, remember? And the twins would be ....??? Ghosts. Jeez. :rolleyes:

I'm saddened to admit, the critics called this one on the nose. BORING. Every fight scene was dragged out way past the point. Personally, I was extremely disappointed. This movie was even lamer than Johnny Nemmonic.


And why are there only 4 white people in all of Zion?
 
Mirlyn said:
Anyhoo...yeah. I was out with some friends tonight and they said "one" is written all over the walls and chair in the Oracle scene.
Click to expand...

yep that righty there was a large ONE and some eon and eeno plus others that had e n or o in some arrangment all supposed to look like graffitie.
 
I got pretty disapointed aswell. The plot was empty. Couldn't hold yourself as the first did. And the architect part was hard as hell to understand... The fighting scenes were oevrrated.
 
OK, I don't understand these criticisms of the plot. In many, many ways, the plot was developed well past what was exposed in the first movie. By comparison, this was a philosophical masterpiece, and the first movie was simply another "Rambo" movie. Yes, I loved the first, but I am astounded that anyone can call this a dissapointment.

A few comments to think about:

This is the sixth iteration of Neo. His personality is an enevitable result of the code of the Matrix... something (a glitch) they haven't been able to get rid of without disrupting all the nice things about the current Matrix. What does that mean? If his personality is a recurring part of the code, then his persona, intellect, and abilities are not a result of his human mind. Indeed, it seems as if the whole of his conciousness as a human has in a very real way been overwritten by the Matrix program. Whereas other humans in the Matrix develop their personalities as a result of their genetics and life experiences, Neo seems to be the result of Matrix programming and life experiences. A very important distinction. Just as the agents, twins, and the Oracle are parts of the Matrix code, so is Neo, at least in part. How was he able to stop the machines in the "real world" at the end of the movie? Well, I'm not sure precisely what route they will take with the plot, but to venture a guess it could simply be that the Matrix monitors all parts of code that make up the Matrix, and the machines can monitor Neo in the real world in some way, since his psychology is a product of their programming.

About the twins... that seemed pretty obvious. In the first Matrix, we only knew that there were humans plugged in, and agents that were the "police force" code of the Matrix. We also knew about the Oracle, but didn't know "what" she was. At the time, it seemed innocent enough to think of her as a human with gifts... just like Neo. How wrong we were, on both accounts. In the second movie we were shown that the Matrix is much more complex than we had believed. There are parts of code that malfunction, or even rebel. The twins are such an example of code that doesn't "go along with" the normal operation of the Matrix. Several characters are as greedy as any humans... and I think that is very important philosophically. We were shown that all aspects of humanity (except compassion... haven't seen that one yet, except perhaps in Neo) are represented in the machine world. And the discussion in Zion about the machines that they rely on to stay alive (mechanical ventilation and such), man, what a strong message. The war between man and machines was began simply because man couldn't find a way to coexist. It was man's arrogance that led to the Matrix, and I'm interested to find out how in the third movie man's arrogance can be overcome to disband the Matrix.

On Neo's choice... what a tough decision. The "rebellion" had occured five times already, with the end result of Neo going to see the Architect (by instruction of the Oracle, who is as self serving as most other characters in the machine world). The choice is to either cooperate, allow the rebellion to be crushed, save for a few who will seed the new Zion for the next iteration, and the human race lives; or, not cooperate, destroy the core programming as was his intent, and allow both Zion to be destroyed as well as all humans all humans connected to the Matrix - the human race dies.

Best I can tell, Neo made a third choice not anticipated or planned for... he simply did neither, and left the Architect and the Matrix intact. In a way, it seems he postponed his decision, which might be the road to true freedom from the Matrix. I think the machines had planned for one or the other options being chosen. The first five times it was the easy option. Had it been the other, I think the machines would actually have kept a few humans alive, to rebuild the Matrix after suffering enormous machine casualties and setbacks due to the scrambling of the core programming by Neo, and the loss of their most important energy source. But comments made by the Architect, about "acceptable losses," leads me to believe that that option had been planned for by the machines, and in reality either option would have been fine with them... either one assured their continued dominance of the planet. Apparently, the third movie will be the exploration and revelation of how that third option plays out. Perhaps they take the fight somewhere they machines didn't expect and didn't plan for... the real world. Perhaps they never realized that Neo being a product of the Matrix means he has some control over machines in the real world, just as the machines have control over humans in the Matrix.

Who knows... it will be interesting. But a dissapointment, or devoid of plot development? Man... what more could you possible ask for? It's a philosophical tour de force. Maybe a bit overdone on the action scenes, and with a couple of cheesy "geek porno" scenes thrown in, but all in all it's a much better sequel than I had thought possible.
 
well I liked it. also, I think that people read too much into it. i'm not commenting on anything posted here, but from the reactions of some of my friends who've also seen it... my God, it's a bloody film! :)
 
outside looking in said:
I think the machines had planned for one or the other options being chosen.
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Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't there only 0's and 1's in programming? As in 0 for one choice 1 for the toher? So did Neo essentially throw in 2 into the programming code?
 
just saw the movie today. the highway chase was definately worth the price of admission. the rest of the movie i'm not so sure about. i'll wait till the 3rd part is released. reloaded looked like a 2 hour prologue to the 3rd part.

what i was thinking, in regards to Neo and his abilities, is that Neo is actually a machine of some sort. the architect did say that it was v6.0 and that "the one" had been part of all previous versions and that he could choose X number of people to start Zion all over again.
in the first movie, the bullets didn't kill him (at least not for long anyway). in reloaded, he stopped a sword with his bare hand with only a couple of drops of blood. then, at the end, he holds his hand up and all the sentinels drop. if Zion is in the "real world", then he must have some awesome superpowers to be able to do that.

speaking of bullets....was the one Neo pulled out of Trinity a different shade of green or is my short term memory a little off?
 
Saw it again, I have a new theory forming... Maybe Neo is turning into a machine, a program. They say things like "He's only human" and the senator says "Good thing to know you're still human" and it's mentioned at least four times.

Another thing... Anyone notice the Indian looking guy being escorted out of the restaurant as they're coming in? I think he's the *real* keymaker and that they got a dupe. The French guy says a few times that they have no idea of the "why" of what they were doing and that they were just following orders like good little kids.

I'm starting to think that from the minute they walked into the restaurant, they were setup. And also that the "Matrix within a Matrix" comes up every time they lose contact with them in the ship. That's how you know they're being set up.

And if you think we're looking into this a little too much, check out these guys. :eek:
 
It's been a few days now since I saw it. It was pretty much just what I expected. I'll grant you they hyped the ever-lovin' shit out of it (and if you think that was bad, wait'll the next one), but it advanced the story, and left you wanting more. I agree about the orgy scene though. What was the point of that. Stirring up the gene pool?
 
woodman19_99 said:
outside looking in said:
I think the machines had planned for one or the other options being chosen.
Click to expand...

Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't there only 0's and 1's in programming? As in 0 for one choice 1 for the toher? So did Neo essentially throw in 2 into the programming code?
Click to expand...
Or choice 10, or choice 11, or... And?

When you think about it, how is binary fundamentally different from the way our own brains work? Any base language can be identically translated into another base. Both our brains and the machine programming work on the same laws of physics, quantum mechanics, or whatever else may govern reality. The distinction is really only the difference between silicon and flesh n' blood, as is proven by Agent Smith. Sure, machine programming may have had a slow start, being designed instead of evolved, but given enough time the code of Matrix entities could be every bit as complex as a human brain.


And again, about Neo... perhaps he's not machine in that his innards are mechanical, but as I pointed out, his psyche, intellect, and abilities are programmed by the Matrix, at least in part, and not entirely derived from his human genetics and life experiences as would be the case with any of us, and with any human "normally" plugged into the Matrix.

And I haven't even scratched the most philosophical issue raised... predestination vs. free will. Neo saw the future... want to tackle that one? I'll wait and see the third movie. :)
 
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