Mideast Leaders Declare End to Violence
- Thread starter MrBishop
- Start date
SouthernN'Proud
Southern Discomfort
Maybe until the ink dries, but I doubt it.
Winky
Well-Known Member
It appears increasingly likely that the U.S. backed government in Iraq will lose by a landslide, in favor of--surprise, surprise--Muslim fundamentalists.
There will be official public statements from the U.S. government in coming days and weeks that the U.S. can work with the democratically led Iraqi Shiite government, blah, blah, blah. What else can our government say?
How about the truth?
Let’s reconnect with reality. The war against terrorism is a war against Islam. Our conservative Christian President cannot face this fact, because he believes religious faith is what makes freedom possible. He evades the fact that “pure” religious faith in Iran has led to nothing but a monstrous dictatorship in that country, a dictatorship whose current development of nuclear weapons presents a gathering threat to American interests abroad and, no doubt, ultimately to America itself.
A liberal John Kerry administration would have been equally powerless to stop this trend. A liberal administration might not be so foolish to think that a democratically elected Muslim dictatorship is any better than one that takes over by force, as the Bush administration will claim. But the liberals who dominate the Democratic Party don’t believe in the use of American force at all--or, if so, only very minimally. Consequently, there is no way to prevent a gathering military threat of any kind under liberalism, be it fascist, communist, religious or anything else.
The rest of us who actually think and care about our own and our country’s future have to face facts. Democracy is not what makes freedom possible. What makes freedom possible is a government that ends the rule of force in human life, and willingly uses force against those who violate this principle. What also makes freedom possible is a rational, secular outlook--at least six days out of the week--and, even for religious believers, an absolute commitment to the separation of church and state. Neither of these exists in Iraq, as we now know from the fall of the American secular government and the rise of another Islamic dictatorship. Of course it comes as no surprise.
Ayn Rand wrote years ago that faith and force are inevitable consequences of one another. In the coming months and years, we are about to see that play out in Iraq. Note that the “insurgents” in Iraq who support the sort of religious fundamentalist government voted into office still won’t validate the election and stop their violence. Even the slightest hint of Westernism is poison to them. If only our own government had the same attitude towards Islamic dictatorship and mysticism, we’d have won the war against terrorism hands down by now.
It’s bad enough that our soldiers have died in Iraq for the purpose of installing the government of some primitive Ayatollah. By helping the Iraqis install yet another Middle Eastern religious state, a state that may well be openly hostile to the U.S. like the Iranian one, we have moved another step closer to nuclear war in that part of the world--and even on our own soil, at some future date.
There will be official public statements from the U.S. government in coming days and weeks that the U.S. can work with the democratically led Iraqi Shiite government, blah, blah, blah. What else can our government say?
How about the truth?
Let’s reconnect with reality. The war against terrorism is a war against Islam. Our conservative Christian President cannot face this fact, because he believes religious faith is what makes freedom possible. He evades the fact that “pure” religious faith in Iran has led to nothing but a monstrous dictatorship in that country, a dictatorship whose current development of nuclear weapons presents a gathering threat to American interests abroad and, no doubt, ultimately to America itself.
A liberal John Kerry administration would have been equally powerless to stop this trend. A liberal administration might not be so foolish to think that a democratically elected Muslim dictatorship is any better than one that takes over by force, as the Bush administration will claim. But the liberals who dominate the Democratic Party don’t believe in the use of American force at all--or, if so, only very minimally. Consequently, there is no way to prevent a gathering military threat of any kind under liberalism, be it fascist, communist, religious or anything else.
The rest of us who actually think and care about our own and our country’s future have to face facts. Democracy is not what makes freedom possible. What makes freedom possible is a government that ends the rule of force in human life, and willingly uses force against those who violate this principle. What also makes freedom possible is a rational, secular outlook--at least six days out of the week--and, even for religious believers, an absolute commitment to the separation of church and state. Neither of these exists in Iraq, as we now know from the fall of the American secular government and the rise of another Islamic dictatorship. Of course it comes as no surprise.
Ayn Rand wrote years ago that faith and force are inevitable consequences of one another. In the coming months and years, we are about to see that play out in Iraq. Note that the “insurgents” in Iraq who support the sort of religious fundamentalist government voted into office still won’t validate the election and stop their violence. Even the slightest hint of Westernism is poison to them. If only our own government had the same attitude towards Islamic dictatorship and mysticism, we’d have won the war against terrorism hands down by now.
It’s bad enough that our soldiers have died in Iraq for the purpose of installing the government of some primitive Ayatollah. By helping the Iraqis install yet another Middle Eastern religious state, a state that may well be openly hostile to the U.S. like the Iranian one, we have moved another step closer to nuclear war in that part of the world--and even on our own soil, at some future date.
SouthernN'Proud
Southern Discomfort
I sorta agree. Bush cannot call the war on terrorism a war against Islam. I agree there. I think the reason he can't is simply PC though.
I keep hearing that not all Muslims are like the ones who blow shit up all the time. OK. I don't know any, so I can't know if that's true or not. Maybe there are peaceloving Islamic disciples in the world. Maybe they outnumber the ones who keep blowing shit up all the time. If so, then to call it a war against Islam is not correct. If all Muslims are, however, like the ones who keep blowing shit up, then if Bush calls it a war against Islam he just invited a bunch of other countries to the party.
I do not consider President Bush to be a "religious" person. I consider him to be a Christian, because he proclaims himself to be one. There are thousands of religions in the world. To the faithful, theirs is the right one; the others are either wrong or at the least flawed in some way. I myself believe that the doctrine I follow is correct, and that some others are as well, they just have different practices, or a few tenets of their faith differs from mine. Then there are many that I believe are just wrong, plain and simple.
Let's not make this a holy war until it becomes one.
I keep hearing that not all Muslims are like the ones who blow shit up all the time. OK. I don't know any, so I can't know if that's true or not. Maybe there are peaceloving Islamic disciples in the world. Maybe they outnumber the ones who keep blowing shit up all the time. If so, then to call it a war against Islam is not correct. If all Muslims are, however, like the ones who keep blowing shit up, then if Bush calls it a war against Islam he just invited a bunch of other countries to the party.
I do not consider President Bush to be a "religious" person. I consider him to be a Christian, because he proclaims himself to be one. There are thousands of religions in the world. To the faithful, theirs is the right one; the others are either wrong or at the least flawed in some way. I myself believe that the doctrine I follow is correct, and that some others are as well, they just have different practices, or a few tenets of their faith differs from mine. Then there are many that I believe are just wrong, plain and simple.
Let's not make this a holy war until it becomes one.
MrBishop
Well-Known Member
If peaceful Muslims didn't outnumber the violent extreme ones...my guess if that we would've had a war based on religion convictions a long time ago. There are approx. 3.1 million Muslims in the USA alone.... declaring a war on all Muslims would be perhaps the worst decision that Bush could make. Imagine WWI with the relocation and internment camps in the USA for Italians and Japanese Americans...but on a much larger scale!
Then imagine one nation with her allies going to war against numerous nations:
CountryMuslim (%)
Afghanistan99
Albania70
Algeria99
Azerbaijan93.4
Bahrain100
Bangladesh83
Brunei67
Burkina Faso50
Chad51
Comoros98
Djibouti94
Egypt94
Gambia90
GazaStrip98.7
Guinea85
Indonesia88
Iran98
Iraq97
Jordan92
Kuwait85
Kyrgyzstan75
Lebanon70
Libya97
MaldivesSunni Muslim
Mali90
Mauritania100
Mayotte97
Morocco98.7
Niger80
Nigeria50
Oman75
Pakistan97
Qatar95
Saudi Arabia100
Senegal94
Sierra Leone60
Somalia Sunni Muslim
Sudan70
Syria90
Tajikistan90
Tunisia98
Turkey99.8
Turkmenistan89
United Arab Emirates 96
Uzbekistan88
West Bank75
YemenMuslim
...and that's just the nations with majority Muslims. You'd also have to drive out Muslims from other nations like Canada, UK, Australia etc etc...And with an estimated: 1,254,222,000 Muslims worldwide...good fuckin' luck!
It's more than PC...it'd be suicidal.
Then imagine one nation with her allies going to war against numerous nations:
CountryMuslim (%)
Afghanistan99
Albania70
Algeria99
Azerbaijan93.4
Bahrain100
Bangladesh83
Brunei67
Burkina Faso50
Chad51
Comoros98
Djibouti94
Egypt94
Gambia90
GazaStrip98.7
Guinea85
Indonesia88
Iran98
Iraq97
Jordan92
Kuwait85
Kyrgyzstan75
Lebanon70
Libya97
MaldivesSunni Muslim
Mali90
Mauritania100
Mayotte97
Morocco98.7
Niger80
Nigeria50
Oman75
Pakistan97
Qatar95
Saudi Arabia100
Senegal94
Sierra Leone60
Somalia Sunni Muslim
Sudan70
Syria90
Tajikistan90
Tunisia98
Turkey99.8
Turkmenistan89
United Arab Emirates 96
Uzbekistan88
West Bank75
YemenMuslim
...and that's just the nations with majority Muslims. You'd also have to drive out Muslims from other nations like Canada, UK, Australia etc etc...And with an estimated: 1,254,222,000 Muslims worldwide...good fuckin' luck!
It's more than PC...it'd be suicidal.
Winky
Well-Known Member
so Bishness help me out here
help me to understand how much you don't comphehend the situation then mebbe we can hep ya.
read this (move lips if necessary)
"The war against terrorism is a war against Islam.
The fact that “pure” religious faith in Iran has led to nothing but a monstrous dictatorship in that country"
Now show me how many countries on your list have freedom and anything even remotely resembling a democratic Republic type of government.
help me to understand how much you don't comphehend the situation then mebbe we can hep ya.
read this (move lips if necessary)
"The war against terrorism is a war against Islam.
The fact that “pure” religious faith in Iran has led to nothing but a monstrous dictatorship in that country"
Now show me how many countries on your list have freedom and anything even remotely resembling a democratic Republic type of government.
MrBishop
Well-Known Member
I'm not insane Winky... but if you insist on making blanket statments like "The war against terrorism is a war against Islam" - don't expect me to take you too seriously either.Winky said:
Right now...the war on terrorism is more like 'the war against the middle-east'. The fact that most of the groups listed as terrorists happened to call themselves Muslim doesn't mean that all Muslims are terrorists nor that they should be thought of as such.
Doing so would be a drastic error with wide-ranging repurcussions. That's probably why dubya keeps saying things like "Our Muslim friends" over and over again like a mantra. He gets it...why don't you?