Mom: Girl not harmed by pledging 'under God'

flavio said:
Third, my answer to the person who says we need to discuss principles and keep everything by the book then I say this. You need to live your life as a perfect example of never deviating from anything other than being logical. Don't even think of falling in love or getting married because those things are not logical. Love has no logic. You want to stick to the by the book example you want set by others then try doing it yourself. Don't spit on the sidewalk. Never cuss or swear. You have to have everything perfect to fit your needs. Always be logical and never, ever never do anything that is not perfect. I have news for you. This world is fucked up. Nothing is perfect and you can't have everything your own way. I have just a much right to want Under God left in as you want it out, and 99% of American agrees with me
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This is a bunch of meaningless rambling. The fact is there is supposed to be a seperation of church and state.
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Hey man, do you want something to disagree with or not? Make up your mind. I could of just as easily sat on my ass and not said a word. This is a discussion forum. I ain't always gonna be the good guy that is going to kiss peoples' asses and say things that they will always agree with. You either wanna read my posts or you can put me on your ignore list. I really don't give a fuck if you don't wanna read it. I was carrying a point to extreme. I decided to show jerkweed how screwed up his viewpoint is wanting the world to be perfect. You want a perfect world then move to Mars to start your own society. :D
 
s4 said:
I decided to show jerkweed how screwed up his viewpoint is wanting the world to be perfect. You want a perfect world then move to Mars to start your own society. :D
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Jerkweed?

The world is perfect. It's you that's screwed up. If you want to "show" me something you're going to have to actually use your brain and apply a little of that logic that you hold in such scorn. Otherwise all you're showing is your ass.
 
Hey man, do you want something to disagree with or not? Make up your mind. I could of just as easily sat on my ass and not said a word. This is a discussion forum. I ain't always gonna be the good guy that is going to kiss peoples' asses and say things that they will always agree with. You either wanna read my posts or you can put me on your ignore list. I really don't give a fuck if you don't wanna read it. I was carrying a point to extreme. I decided to show jerkweed how screwed up his viewpoint is wanting the world to be perfect. You want a perfect world then move to Mars to start your own society.
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The problem is what you're saying really has no relevance to the issue, that is why I said it was meaningless rambling.

We have a seperation of church and state, that is why I don't believe that "under god" is supposed to be in there. Do you have some legitimate legal reason why it should be in there? ...or are you just going to rant about moving to mars?
 
I guess he's saying separation of church and state is not in our Constitution. What's so hard to understand about that?
 
I'm not debating the seperation of church and state at all. Not at all.

Here is what I am saying. I'm saying that "Under God" has been used in the Pledge for 50 years. It was good enough for people for 50 years. At that time, people believed strongly that it should be part of the Pledge.

Only one man has come forward trying to get it changed and he was such a coward about it that he used his daughter to try to get it changed. He probably has some kind of wild hair up his ass or is mad about something. Somewhere, the guy has a ulterior motive for wanting it changed. He was willing to exploit his own daughter to gain some attention.

The mother came forward and said that she has no objection to the Pledge and neither does the little girl. The guy tried to claim that saying the Pledge was harming his daughter somehow. The mother denies this. Since he did try to use his daughter then we should take a good look at his credibility.

A poll has been taken of Americans by CNN to see if they want it changed. A majority of those who replied were very much against changing it. The Congress passed a resolution against changing it. Only a minority of the people want it changed.

I am not arguing about seperation of church and state. I am saying that most people in America do not want it changed even if some feel there is a contradiction. If the majority of the people want the Pledge left like it is then it will be.

I am arguing that sometimes not everything works perfectly just like it should in theory. It would be nice if we could live in a perfect world with no wars or disease where everything is as it should be, but that is not practical. I am arguing not about theory but practicality. It works for most Americans to leave the Pledge alone. That is what I am saying.

I was not trying to construct a good argument before. I just wanted to keep the board interesting. Jerkweed sounded humorous, so I used it. I realize some of you get into these discussions a little more than I do. Usually, I just post some bullshit and forget it. It doesn't mean a hell of a lot to me to stand around arguing about the Pledge particuarly when I know most people want it left alone. If they were going to take "Under God" out then I would raise hell about it because I have my own agenda of believing in God the same as the jerk who used his daughter to want it out.
 
and before it was put in it was good enough for people for 200 years rather than 50. now as i said i agree that all he wants like you said is attention. hes one of those who wanted to be named in the news. and mitch there as i said is no real separation of church and state in the Constitution. the closest is the first amendment where it states freedo of religion and also congress shall make no law establishing religion. thats usually where the ideas of separation of church and state originate.
 
I am not absolutely sure that the words "Under God" are a violation of the seperation of church and state. Nowhere is anyone told which religion or which God they have to pledge to. I am not going to get in one of these debates about that so say whatever you want in response.

If someone were to say the Pledge in a crowded room and did not choose to include "Under God" in what they said then I seriously doubt anyone would notice. The whole argument is not really about church and state but rather two words. Some people take the Pledge more seriously than others do. Some people don't mean a word of it when they say it or the words don't mean anything to them. Some people would like to get rid of the whole thing. Osama bin Laden would certainly like it if he could somehow get Americans to disown their own Pledge.

What do you think terrorists are all about? They want to destroy America and American Values. They attacked the WTC in hopes of harming our economy and security. They wanted mass panic and Americans to be afraid.

Now more than ever it is important to stand up for America. If you don't want to say "Under God" then that is your right, but by the same token you should respect the people who do want to say it regardless of how wrong you feel they might be. Americans need to stick together. Instead of dividing ourselves over a disagreement about two words, we need to unite to overcome those who would destroy everything our country stands for. Say the words "Under God" or don't say them, but stand behind your country and defend it if needed.
 
One last thing that I have to say is that I am getting tired of this thread. I'm going to let whoever wants to post in it say whatever they want. I feel that we are accomplishing nothing with it, and I've decided to quit posting in this thread. There is nothing to be gained. Some of us simply disagree and nothing will change that.
 
IMO, seperation of Church and State should exist, in the form it was meant to exist, that is that your religon should be your private thing, and you should not be told what religon to be, and that your religon should not be a requirement to hold a public office.

To say that extends to every mention of the word God, Lord, or even Higher Power in any type of government document is absurd. God is a part of the majority of the United States, the vast majority. Whether you are Hindu, Catholic, Buddist, or whatever, they all believe there is a higher power, and most recognize that the word God refers to that higher power.

The way I see seperation of Church and State is this, if a school wants to say the pledge with Under God in it, and the majority of the students want to say the pledge with Under God in it, then it is none of anyone elses business if they do. If there are children, or parents who do not want their children saying it, or even hearing it, then they can go in the hall for the 2 minutes it takes to say it.
 
I wasn't going to post in this thread again, but I agree with what you said. You are absolutely right.
 
What do you think terrorists are all about? They want to destroy America and American Values. They attacked the WTC in hopes of harming our economy and security. They wanted mass panic and Americans to be afraid.

Now more than ever it is important to stand up for America. If you don't want to say "Under God" then that is your right, but by the same token you should respect the people who do want to say it regardless of how wrong you feel they might be. Americans need to stick together. Instead of dividing ourselves over a disagreement about two words, we need to unite to overcome those who would destroy everything our country stands for. Say the words "Under God" or don't say them, but stand behind your country and defend it if needed.
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This is a pretty fscking huge streeeeetch. You really sound wacky in this reply. God has no place in government. If some people want to say "under god" cool, but it has no place being the official version.

God has no place in government <- I'll repeat that. Save the god stuff for home.
 
Tell that to 99% of America that wants it left like it is. You think you are so right then you need to run for office so you can get things changed. You tell people that you want to remove "Under God" from the Pledge and we'll see if the 5 votes you get will be enough to put you in power.

I have nothing else to say to you Flavio. We never did agree on anything anyway.
 
You know what, we don't seem to agree on allot of stuff. I'm not really anti-god or anything. I don't doubt the existence of a higher power, I'm just not sure what form it really takes and I think most organized religions are extremely flawed.

In principle it does not belong, but you seem to be saying "well, I want it there anyway". In that case this arguement has no logical conclusion.

The guy who brought it up in court has a good point and he is right. Allot of people "want it there anyway" though. What can you do?

It probably really isn't worth all the fuss.
 
99% of children want ice cream for breakfast lunch and dinner. Restraint and wisdom makes sure that such emotion and self destructive behavior doesn't win the day.
 
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