More hospital horrors

paul_valaru said:
Triage.

If you go to Emergency with an emergency the wait time is very short, if it is a life threatening emergency there is no wait if you go with the sniffles there is a hell of a long wait, because there are clinics you can go to for things like that (if you don't have a family doctor.)

Your idea of what socialized medicine is WAY off.

On to socialized medicine....

I saw Sicko (now I don't like ALL of Micheal Moores movies, and I do take them with a grain of salt) and what he showed about Canada in it is true, and if what he showed about the US is true, that is some scary shit, loosing your house cause you are sick and can't afford medical treatment. Or HMOs trying to stop you from gettiing treatment. I know if I get hurt I will get taken care of.
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One word for Michael Moore: Homestead.

Under the homestead act you can homestead your principle residence and it cannot be taken by lawsuit for liens which are not actually against the residence.
 
jimpeel said:
One word for Michael Moore: Homestead.

Under the homestead act you can homestead your principle residence and it cannot be taken by lawsuit for liens which are not actually against the residence.
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yet you can't buy your lifesaving drugs unless you remortgage or sell your house, or get that operation you need, cause they want cash up front.
 
paul_valaru said:
yet you can't buy your lifesaving drugs unless you remortgage or sell your house, or get that operation you need, cause they want cash up front.
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As it's turning out, neither can the less productive, or the very sick, in places where socialized medicine is the norm.

Let me ask a question...if you take profits away from pharmceuticals (or any company), what lifesaving medicine (or other goods & services) do you think they'll come up with? When the government starts dictating what branch of medicine one goes into, fulfilling needs, what will be lost as a result?

Socialized medicine is lovely if you're a productive middle aged (or younger) person with potential for helping increase the GDP for years to come. If you've outlived your usefulness, it'll pay for assisted suicide but not dialysis.
 
Gonz said:
Socialized medicine is lovely if you're a productive middle aged (or younger) person with potential for helping increase the GDP for years to come. If you've outlived your usefulness, it'll pay for assisted suicide but not dialysis.
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actually it will.
 
What would drive a man like Castonguay to reconsider his long-held beliefs? Try a health care system so overburdened that hundreds of thousands in need of medical attention wait for care, any care; a system where people in towns like Norwalk, Ontario, participate in lotteries to win appointments with the local family doctor.
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Sick with ovarian cancer, Sylvia de Vires, an Ontario woman afflicted with a 13-inch, fluid-filled tumor weighing 40 pounds, was unable to get timely care in Canada. She crossed the American border to Pontiac, Mich., where a surgeon removed the tumor, estimating she could not have lived longer than a few weeks more.

The Canadian government pays for U.S. medical care in some circumstances, but it declined to do so in de Vires' case for a bureaucratically perfect, but inhumane, reason: She hadn't properly filled out a form. At death's door, de Vires should have done her paperwork better.
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Canada isn't the only country facing a government health care crisis. Britain's system, once the postwar inspiration for many Western countries, is similarly plagued. Both countries trail the U.S. in five-year cancer survival rates, transplantation outcomes and other measures.

The problem is that government bureaucrats simply can't centrally plan their way to better health care.

A typical example: The Ministry of Health declared that British patients should get ER care within four hours. The result? At some hospitals, seriously ill patients are kept in ambulances for hours so as not to run afoul of the regulation; at other hospitals, patients are admitted to inappropriate wards.
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Source

These stories are popping up, more & more often.
 
Well yeah they may trail the US system because in the states only the rich can afford treatment.

I know from my own familys experience that you can and will get prompt and good treatment.
 
Gonz said:
Source

These stories are popping up, more & more often.
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And stories of healthcare fuckups in the US are all over the place. Do you have a point? Or is it just the old "find an example and try and make a generalization" routine?

Fact is the US lags way behind in infant mortality, lifespan, and many other areas compared to countries with universal healthcare. Our overall heathcare system is way back at 30+.

Seems your only hope of even debating this is to pick at some odd examples and try and portray them as the norm as any logical argument is doomed. Funny how Jimbo even tried to use an example from New York as the norm under universal healthcare. Maybe he didn't realize New York is in the US. :laugh:
 
spike said:
Fact is the US lags way behind in infant mortality, lifespan, and many other areas compared to countries with universal healthcare. Our overall heathcare system is way back at 30+.
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When you find another example to compare us with that has 300,000,000 people, let me know. The statistical odds will drop us with that number.

When people elsewhere get sick, they travel to the US for help. We have the best healthcare system around. Period.
 
Gonz said:
When you find another example to compare us with that has 300,000,000 people, let me know. The statistical odds will drop us with that number.

When people elsewhere get sick, they travel to the US for help. We have the best healthcare system around. Period.
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I think those stats are per capita
 
Gonz said:
When you find another example to compare us with that has 300,000,000 people, let me know. The statistical odds will drop us with that number.
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Paul is right. It's per capita so your argument makes no sense.

When people elsewhere get sick, they travel to the US for help.
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Actually people from the US also travel to countries with better healthcare for help.

We have the best healthcare system around. Period.
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No, we're ranked 37th. Declaring something you wish as true and then avoiding all facts is just silly.
 
spike said:
Actually people from the US also travel to countries with better healthcare for help.
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The migration for overseas helathcare to (where?) is astounding wouldn't you say? Had to be, what, 10 or twelve of them fuckers?
 
Barnum is one of thousands of Americans—estimates range from an ultraconservative 5,000 to 500,000 annually if minor procedures are counted—who are leaving the States for surgery when they have to come up with funds themselves.
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Medical Tourism
 
Gonz said:
The migration for overseas helathcare to (where?) is astounding wouldn't you say? Had to be, what, 10 or twelve of them fuckers?
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Looks like everyone proved the point already. Got anything else besides the shattered delusions?
 
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