Native Hawaiians fighting back

kuulani said:
*phew*

i know, i know. i just came back and i'm biting everyone in the ass.
i'm sorry ... i'm a little sensitive about Hawaiian issues.

if you were around during the jjr times, you understand ...
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BTW...What happened at the "Merry Monarch" this year?
 
kuulani said:
Let's just start on this one minor point. Being Southern is not an ethnicity. You may live in the South and call yourself southern, but that is not an ethnicity. Being Hawaiian is. You can't just move here and call yourself Hawaiian. My people were here in my land from day one. There were no other people in our land before us. I don't believe you can say that about your neck of the woods.
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I can verify ancestry in the Confederate States of America, the independent nation in question in this neck of the woods. I would suspect that anyone with lineage to the CSA would be able to lay claim under my theoretical ponderings.

kuulani said:
Secondly, you say you had the power to collect tax revenue & engage in commerce. I'll admit that I don't know much about the South, but did you have your own currency to engage in such acts?
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Yes, we had Confederate currency.

Define the phrase "independent nation" any way you like. The Confederate States of America was an independent nation. Its government was legitimate. It was a real nation. It was not just an army. It was negotiating trade treaties with England, France, and other countries when it was invaded and illegally overthrown by a hostile foreign country known as the United States of America. It qualifies under this bill as far as I can interpret thus far into my reasearch of the bill. And if this bill passes, I hope to God things are finally made right for the millions of descendents of Confederates who have been denied their autonomy for generations.
 
kuulani said:
The president at the time (Cleveland) was against the overthrow. Unfortunately his term ended and the next president (McKinley) did not do anything to those individuals who overthrew the kingdom.
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How did your sovereign community get overthrown by businessmen? They came in & killed your leader with a pen & paper set & then set about enslaving your people in cubicles? I don't mean to sound flippant (no, really I don't) but that sounds silly.

Overthrown is to be removed by force. If your Queen didn't put up a fight & went along with their plans, willingly, then it sound like a political move...one which is another strike into the heart of a Monarchy.

As far as the fools suing the private school-as long as there are no public monies being taken by the school, the suit will be thrown out.

Protect your rights, as native Hawaiians...what can a government do to ensure the ethnic viability that your people can't (or won't)? The Indians (there are no surviving native Americans) got stuck on reservations & staying there is doing nothing to help them grow, as a people.

In short - let the people take care of themselves or let the government destroy what may be sacred.
 
kuulani said:
Let's just start on this one minor point. Being Southern is not an ethnicity. You may live in the South and call yourself southern, but that is not an ethnicity.
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Had we been let alone, it would have been.

Again. A new nation was created. It's not difficult. Just like a new nation was created in 1776. No difference. We had a constitution, an army, a president, a congress, laws...you name it. It was a nation unjustly invaded and deposed. Are not the residents of a nation an identifiable nationality? And hence, their direct descendants?
 
SouthernN'Proud said:
Had we been let alone, it would have been.

Again. A new nation was created. It's not difficult. Just like a new nation was created in 1776. No difference. We had a constitution, an army, a president, a congress, laws...you name it. It was a nation unjustly invaded and deposed. Are not the residents of a nation an identifiable nationality? And hence, their direct descendants?
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You know what ... my husband is following this thread with me and he agrees with you. He put it in my head that we have our Hawaiian identity and you have your Southern identity. I guess we're in the same boat. Damn yankees ;)
 
Gonz said:
How did your sovereign community get overthrown by businessmen? They came in & killed your leader with a pen & paper set & then set about enslaving your people in cubicles? I don't mean to sound flippant (no, really I don't) but that sounds silly.

Overthrown is to be removed by force. If your Queen didn't put up a fight & went along with their plans, willingly, then it sound like a political move...one which is another strike into the heart of a Monarchy.
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On Jan. 17, 1893, the Hawaiian monarchy ended. A small group of businessmen, most of them American, succeeded in wresting control of the Islands with the backing of American troops sent ashore from a warship in the harbor. To this "superior force of the United States of America," our Queen yielded her throne, under protest, in order to avoid bloodshed, trusting that the United States government would right the wrong that had been done to Hawaiians.

As history shows us, she was wrong.
 
SouthernN'Proud said:
I can verify ancestry in the Confederate States of America, the independent nation in question in this neck of the woods. I would suspect that anyone with lineage to the CSA would be able to lay claim under my theoretical ponderings.
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You may be able to trace your genealogy back to the Confederacy, but that is still not an ethnicity. Where did those people come from? England? Other European nations?

My point is that ethnicity differs from nationality. Being Hawaiian is an ethnicity. Being American or Southern is a nationality.
 
kuulani said:
You may be able to trace your genealogy back to the Confederacy, but that is still not an ethnicity. Where did those people come from? England? Other European nations?

My point is that ethnicity differs from nationality. Being Hawaiian is an ethnicity. Being American or Southern is a nationality.
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people from the continent can't be ethnic? try telling that to sacco and vanzetti.

notion of "ethnicity" comes from the 19th century and it's EXACTLY the same thing as "nationality," e.g. "irish." ditching semantic play, more contemporary interpretations define ethnicity as visible difference from the dominant cultural group, and in that sense SnP, especially if he invoked an appalachian identity, could be nominally "ethnic."
 
kuulani said:
You may be able to trace your genealogy back to the Confederacy, but that is still not an ethnicity. Where did those people come from? England? Other European nations?

My point is that ethnicity differs from nationality. Being Hawaiian is an ethnicity. Being American or Southern is a nationality.
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Lemme try again. Had we been let alone, the states that comprised the Confederacy would have remained a separate nation. Then the descendents would have been Confederate instead of American.

The original native Hawaiians came from somewhere, and over time became natives. Your children are natives because you are native. Same here. My ancestors, as far back as can be traced, lived in the southern Highlands of the Appalachians. They are of Scots-Irish heritage, but they never set foot in Scotland or Ireland. Therefore, I would qualify as both a Southerner (Confederate had the meddling bastards stayed home) and as an Appalachian. Best of both worlds. :D

Put another way, Poland is no longer part of the Soviet union. The natives are not called Soviets, they are Poles. We would be Confederates. Not one iota of difference. If.

I did not mean to infer that native Hawaiians would, could, or should secede. That would be their decision to make however. And if it comes to decisions like that, who knows what could follow? Maybe Gonz and Winky could finally write all us dumbass Southerners off as foreigners and build them a fence to patrol.

Of course, there just might be somebody on this side of that fence too...:evilgrin:
 
SouthernN'Proud said:
I did not mean to infer that native Hawaiians would, could, or should secede. That would be their decision to make however. And if it comes to decisions like that, who knows what could follow? Maybe Gonz and Winky could finally write all us dumbass Southerners off as foreigners and build them a fence to patrol.

Of course, there just might be somebody on this side of that fence too...:evilgrin:
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Hmm ... sooooo, if you get your people to support Senator Akaka ... *sigh* one could hope ...
 
Leslie said:
Luis, CHANGE YOUR AVATAR!
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I SWEAR this thread wasn't started with the lightning in mind ;)

Edit: no superstitions, but I'll bring back my old friends :D
 
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