New Plan. Arm the Sunni insurgents

chcr said:
Don't let them run it then. Isn't about time we looked for a government we don't have to be ashamed of anyhow? Liars, thieves and con-men should not be our only choices for leadership.
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Unfortunately, anyone who could do the job effectively would not be electable. Something about pandering...

chcr said:
As for a "workable" solution, do you see one short of stomping on their throats until they capitulate? What will that make us? I think you know the answer to that question whether you want to admit it or not.
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Not really, but war isn't supposed to be nice. The Geneva convention has been responsible for making war 'civil'. It should be ugly, and brutal. That way, its not seen as a viable extension of foreign policy.
 
Gato_Solo said:
Unfortunately, anyone who could do the job effectively would not be electable. Something about pandering...
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And, of course, that's one of the things that needs changing.

Sorry I disappeared there, sometimes they actually expect me to fix computers and shit around here.


Gato_Solo said:
Not really, but war isn't supposed to be nice. The Geneva convention has been responsible for making war 'civil'. It should be ugly, and brutal. That way, its not seen as a viable extension of foreign policy.
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Couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, this is the world we live in and in this world there is no viable, palatable solution. My question therefore remains. How many more young Americans need to die before we come to our senses.
 
we gots lots of kids that didn't go to collage

you know, them dummies yer guy told us about?

an endless supply of cannon fodder

Boo-Yah
 
Changing the lifelong mindset of a people is not an easy task. From brutal dictator to running their own system will take time. Do we have the courrage to continue? We could follow John Edwards & bring our military home in six months. At which point, we've handed the Wantsajihadman, the Taliban & all the other terror groups in the ME a huge chunk of developed property, complete with relatively astute but sheepish populace.

The war would be back in Providence in a manner of months.

Take a look at Gaza. Our enemy can't abide peace. So, as long as we keep killing those who declared a jihad against the west (starting back under Carters administration), the better off we are in the US. This is going to be a generations long war. They asked for it. They demanded it. They provoked it. Well, now they got it. Are we prepared, as a people & as a civilization (the west) to stop them or shall we hand over the keys today?


We'll beat you to submission,
so you might as well surrender.
 
Gonz said:
Changing the lifelong mindset of a people is not an easy task. From brutal dictator to running their own system will take time. Do we have the courrage to continue? We could follow John Edwards & bring our military home in six months. At which point, we've handed the Wantsajihadman, the Taliban & all the other terror groups in the ME a huge chunk of developed property, complete with relatively astute but sheepish populace.

The war would be back in Providence in a manner of months.

Take a look at Gaza. Our enemy can't abide peace. So, as long as we keep killing those who declared a jihad against the west (starting back under Carters administration), the better off we are in the US. This is going to be a generations long war. They asked for it. They demanded it. They provoked it. Well, now they got it. Are we prepared, as a people & as a civilization (the west) to stop them or shall we hand over the keys today?


We'll beat you to submission,
so you might as well surrender.
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We've now set the very idea of spreading democracy back at least a century. Fantasizing about how things might be different only serves to make the situation worse than it is.
 
chcr said:
We've now set the very idea of spreading democracy back at least a century. Fantasizing about how things might be different only serves to make the situation worse than it is.
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I hate that word...especially since it isn't practiced anywhere in the world. Democratic Republic is what we are, and a pretty shoddy example if we keep insisting on acting like a Democracy.
 
Gato_Solo said:
I hate that word...especially since it isn't practiced anywhere in the world. Democratic Republic is what we are, and a pretty shoddy example if we keep insisting on acting like a Democracy.
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I understand and you're correct, of course. It is the accepted verbal shorthand though. :shrug: It's one of those "if you say it enough most folks will believe it" deals, huh?
 
chcr said:
We've now set the very idea of spreading democracy back at least a century. Fantasizing about how things might be different only serves to make the situation worse than it is.
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Which is where we are profoundly in disagreement.
 
That's true expecting the men in dirty nightshirts to behave
in a civilized manner is just silly.
We need to admit defeat install a terroristic Sunni leader
and be prepared to return every so often to prop up a new one.
 
I can't accept the premise that
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness
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is subjective.
 
Winky said:
That's true expecting the men in dirty nightshirts to behave
in a civilized manner is just silly.
We need to admit defeat install a terroristic Sunni leader
and be prepared to return every so often to prop up a new one.
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No, we need to get the fuck outta their way, let 'em run their own country the way they see fit (they could hardly do any worse) and deal with the result. At some point that's what will happen anyway, it's just continuing stupidity to try to keep on the way we've been doing. I know it's a novel idea, that freedom might just possibly mean letting them actually do what they want to, but let's give it a shot. As I say, it could hardly make it worse.

I'm completely certain that some folks are making a profit though. Probably not the ones that are getting killed.
 
As I say, it could hardly make it worse
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Do you really think that if we pulled out, it wouldn't escalate, possibly into the catalyst that completely ignites the ME?
 
chcr said:
We've now set the very idea of spreading democracy back at least a century. Fantasizing about how things might be different only serves to make the situation worse than it is.
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Spreading democracy is just another lie. Notice the ill-conceived attempt of the Condi and Bush to oust a democratically elected government in Palestine by training and arming Fatah. Blew up in their face but certainly shows that "spreading democracy" is no goal of theirs.

Do we have the courage as a country to put a stop to corrupt politicians playing games in the mid-east, wasting our tax dollars, provoking wars through BS scare tactics used on the American public?
 
Gonz said:
Do you really think that if we pulled out, it wouldn't escalate, possibly into the catalyst that completely ignites the ME?
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Same old song and dance Gonz. No, the middle east is not on the brink of a general war. No, A US pull out would not escalate sectarian violence in Iraq any more than our presence is deterring it. The only thing that will change is that our people will stop being a target of opportunity for both sides.

The simple fact is that we will pull out with nothing significant accomplished. All we are currently doing is making the final accounting worse.
 
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