No "Fat Finger" in Thursday DOW 1,000 point loss

jimpeel

Well-Known Member
So the "fat Finger" theory was just wishful thinking. The truth is that we are heading for a depression and history will show that Obama will be the owner of it.

You will know when we are in real trouble when the government issues a new denomination of currency. At that point, hold on with both hands.

SOURCE

May 7, 2010 | 5:05 PM ET
Senior Obama Official: No "Fat Finger" Behind Thursday Wall Street Chaos

UPDATE: As this post predicted, the Securities and Exchange Commission and the Commodity Futures Trading Commission released the following statement of Thursday's Wall Street roller-coaster.

"We are continuing to review the unusual trading activity that took place briefly yesterday afternoon to pinpoint its cause and contributing factors.

Since yesterday, we have been in regular contact with other financial regulators and our respective exchanges. We also have been in touch with our foreign counterparts around the world.

Our market oversight units are reviewing trading and market data from the exchanges, self regulatory organizations and market participants to examine yesterday's unusual trading activity. We are scrutinizing the extent to which disparate trading conventions and rules across various markets may have contributed to the spike in volatility.

We are devoting significant resources and expertise to this effort.

As we determine the cause and contributing factors, we will make our findings and any recommendations public.

Thursday’s unusual trading activity included extreme volatility for a number of individual securities. This is inconsistent with the effective functioning of our capital markets and we will make whatever structural or other changes are needed.

Market clearance and settlement processes functioned well and without incident.”

ORIGINAL POST BEGINS HERE:

A senior Obama administration official briefed early Friday by regulators said the so-called "fat finger" phenomenon did not trigger the massive sell-off that buzz-sawed 1,000 points from the Dow on Thursday - the largest intra-day point loss on record - before a partial recovery recouped some of those loses.

"Fat finger" refers to a theory - never authenticated - that a trader on Thursday mistyped a sell order, selling far more of a stock than the trader intended. Under the theory, that-larger-than-intended sale order sent a false signal through the market and set in motion a domino-effect of other stock sales. According to two senior officials, there is "no evidence" to support the "fat finger" phenomenon.

The official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said regulators reported the more likely cause of the wild market gyrations was programmed sales of stock across exchanges, triggered by a slow down or sale in one exchange and computer-programmed "discrepancy" transactions.

This is the early analysis from Mary Shapiro, head of the Securities and Exchange Commission and Gary Gensler, head of the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission. Both reported to a wide array of top Obama economic aides and advisers Friday morning. One or both agencies are expected to release information on preliminary findings after trading closes today.

The official said Shapiro and Gensler were asked to perform more "forensic accounting" on the underlying causes of the wild ride on Wall Street. The early conclusions are not absolute, the official stressed, but represent the best early analysis and conclusions data gathered so far.

According to the official, while the original trigger is unclear, it appears high volume trades on the Chicago exchange fueled higher sales volume on the New York Stock Exchange. When sales accelerated on the NYSE, built-in trading slow downs meant to minimize huge sell-offs took effect. In reaction, the official said, transactions from the slow-downed Dow shifted to other markets, such as NASDAQ and options exchanges.

This shifting of trades from exchange to exchange were also fueled, the official said, by computer-managed analysis of price discrepancies, meaning if a price spread becomes apparent and falls within a built-in trade range, the computer shifts from one exchange to another.
 
The "Not me!" finger pointer strikes again. It was sabotage, not my policies, which caused near crash.

SOURCE

White House doesn't rule out sabotage in market fluctuation
By Sam Youngman - 05/07/10 03:29 PM ET

President Barack Obama has not ruled out sabotage in the near-panic on Wall Street Thursday afternoon.

White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said Obama's economic team was jolted by the news and met with Obama shortly after the market plunged.

The president announced Friday morning that a full review is being conducted, and Gibbs said Obama is waiting to hear the results of a review before ruling out what might have caused it, including the possibility of sabotage.

“I wouldn’t rule anything in or rule anything out,” Gibbs told reporters in his West Wing office Friday. “I think that’s, appropriately, why they’re reviewing what may or may not have happened.”

Gibbs said Obama thinks the “the circumstances around this is something that should be watched or should be reviewed and looked at.”

It remains unclear what led markets to dramatically fall Thursday. The Dow Jones Industrial average lost nearly 1,000 points before rebounding.

Theories have included a technology problem and a mistaken transaction by a large trader.

The Securities and Exchange Commission and Commodity Futures Trading Commission on Thursday announced a joint investigation of the matter.

When the market began to drop, Lawrence Summers was pulled out of meeting and spent a few minutes making phone calls before talking to the president, Gibbs said.

Summers and Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner met with the president later Thursday afternoon to discuss the incident.

Gibbs said when reporters, who became aware of the drop during his Thursday briefing, began asking him about it, he “thought to myself, well, I’ve only been out here for 30 minutes, what in the world has gone on?”

“You do wonder what happened," Gibbs said. “And that’s why the president has asked that we look into this and that those that regulate those entities will do so.”
 
The truth is that we are heading for a depression and history will show that Obama will be the owner of it.

i'll hold you to that dire prediction. kinda funny when you're the one who denied a recession in its obvious face...
 
Is your favorite song "Livin' In the Past"?

http://www.otcentral.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26879

While I was contending that the definition of a recession -- two quarters of NEGATIVE growth -- had yet to occur, you were contending that decreased, but still positive, growth was a recession. The willing press declared us to be in a recession; and you picked up that ball and ran with it.

Funny that it took until December, 2008 to declare the recession having started in December, 2007. SOURCE In that time, the economy rose by small amounts but there were no NEGATIVE growth quarters. They just had to save their golden boy by making it Bush's recession.

The thread has numerous examples of positive growth throughout 2008 yet you chose to ignore them.

A lie, told often enough, becomes the truth to the useful idiots.
 
"Fat Finger" yanked outta my arse, finally!

They are freakin’ fudgin' all the numbers.
Long before Osama tries to get re-elected
there won't be even one Lib-tard that hasn't had to admit
that we are in a bona fide depression. (GW’s fault)

You've got till 2018 at the earliest before any real turn around occurs.
 
Is your favorite song "Livin' In the Past"?

http://www.otcentral.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26879

While I was contending that the definition of a recession -- two quarters of NEGATIVE growth -- had yet to occur, you were contending that decreased, but still positive, growth was a recession. The willing press declared us to be in a recession; and you picked up that ball and ran with it.

Funny that it took until December, 2008 to declare the recession having started in December, 2007. SOURCE In that time, the economy rose by small amounts but there were no NEGATIVE growth quarters. They just had to save their golden boy by making it Bush's recession.

The thread has numerous examples of positive growth throughout 2008 yet you chose to ignore them.

A lie, told often enough, becomes the truth to the useful idiots.


bullshit, jim. just pure bullshit.

i thought a recession, by definition, was two successive quarters of negative growth. meaning contraction, not just a slower rate of positive growth.

it's been a while since my macroecon class. and the professor used to play in his beard with his pointer while lecturing. it was very odd. and distracting.
 
...and the market is going right back up. (but i'm patiently awaiting further gloom and doom about a "european bailout." how will the US taxpayer ever pay that one off? because we'll have to when they impose one-world government, right?)
 
My wife watched the whole thing happen live..right in front of her on her monitor and she's dealing with some of it this morning. It's not public policy that created the dump, Jim. This was a programming situation. Something started a sell run. A single stock or group of stocks got dumped by someone..whether this was an error or a planned sale is irrelevant for the sake of this argument*.

Because of normal sell reviews for REALLY big orders by management or the 'cage', this is something that wouldn't normally go through. Programs are meant to flag and stop these things before they go through... a software error might've let something through though..or a hack. Whatever started it, the domino results were the same.

Stock prices dipped and all over the market, automatic thresholds got triggered. "If stock X goes it $x, then sell x%", which drop prices down further, which triggered more threshold sales. All this happened in VERY quick order. 6% drop in 10 minutes!!

Human beings react slower than computers, but eventually they do react. On the floor, people saw the bottom fall out and started their own sells. Phones started ringing in Financial Rep offices with more sell/buy/call/put offers.

It's called a panic, Jim. In this case, it wasn't panic caused by a political or world event like you're alluding to. No wars were declared just prior to the dump, no new laws kicked in, no GVT overthrows, devastating earthquakes etc... certainly, it wasn't anything that Obama did. Can you point to an Obama action just prior to the dump that could've triggered it? It would have to be something drastic.

Sabotage is certainly an interesting proposition...and should be looked at.

*Beyond the 'Blame Obama' argument, the trigger is VERY relevant.
 
...and the market is going right back up. (but i'm patiently awaiting further gloom and doom about a "european bailout." how will the US taxpayer ever pay that one off? ....)
I may be a little silly here, but isn't the Fed (and IMF) covering bad foreign debt, with US debt, generally not a good idea? Especially when there seems to be little correction in either nation to what created the debt(s) in the first place.

I need to know, I might be approaching my personal debt completely wrong. Here I am thinking I should pay-off my debt.
 
The DOW is a ponzi scheme, duh

It would make Bernie Madoff proud
but he got thrown in the hoosegow, Right?
 
My wife watched the whole thing happen live..right in front of her on her monitor and she's dealing with some of it this morning. It's not public policy that created the dump, Jim. This was a programming situation. Something started a sell run. A single stock or group of stocks got dumped by someone..whether this was an error or a planned sale is irrelevant for the sake of this argument*.

Because of normal sell reviews for REALLY big orders by management or the 'cage', this is something that wouldn't normally go through. Programs are meant to flag and stop these things before they go through... a software error might've let something through though..or a hack. Whatever started it, the domino results were the same.

Stock prices dipped and all over the market, automatic thresholds got triggered. "If stock X goes it $x, then sell x%", which drop prices down further, which triggered more threshold sales. All this happened in VERY quick order. 6% drop in 10 minutes!!

Human beings react slower than computers, but eventually they do react. On the floor, people saw the bottom fall out and started their own sells. Phones started ringing in Financial Rep offices with more sell/buy/call/put offers.

It's called a panic, Jim. In this case, it wasn't panic caused by a political or world event like you're alluding to. No wars were declared just prior to the dump, no new laws kicked in, no GVT overthrows, devastating earthquakes etc... certainly, it wasn't anything that Obama did. Can you point to an Obama action just prior to the dump that could've triggered it? It would have to be something drastic.

Sabotage is certainly an interesting proposition...and should be looked at.

*Beyond the 'Blame Obama' argument, the trigger is VERY relevant.

Or it could have been a cyber attack to test the system. Who knows. Obama could be right. They are still trying to figure it out.
 
Then I stand corrected. I thought you were the one who was contending what I posted.

I apologize.

golly, jim, i was making posts that questioned what seemed to be the substance of your argument early in the thread, which was that those talking about recession were silly alarmists... at a point when it was obvious to damned near everyone that a recession was either arriving or (more likely) was going to arrive soon, regardless of the technical definition of recession.

i suppose damned near everyone will let history speak for itself at this point.

we'll also let history speak for itself when we do not slide into some horrific depression.

it does truly amuse me how the bright-eyed optimism has turned to bitter pessimism. i wonder why. or, wait, no, i really don't....
 
Or it could have been a cyber attack to test the system. Who knows. Obama could be right. They are still trying to figure it out.

Hell, they're still trying to reverse the gain/loss trades. That's why my wife skipped lunch yesterday and may have to again today. At least she didn't have to go in last weekend. :p

I'd imagine that it was worst in the states where the market took a monumental hit. The TSX wasn't so bad at all.
 
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