Politispeak

SouthernN'Proud

SouthernN'Proud

Southern Discomfort
Y'all know how my mind works. I get to thinking about somethin, so I dig into it, and get sidetracked onto somethin else, and end up God knows where.

It just happened again.

Got to looking for a copy of the Civil Rights Act of 1866. Found it here. (So y'all can't accuse me of makin this up and such...)

An excerpt:

The Civil Rights Act of 1866

14 Stat. 27-30, April 9, 1866 A.D.

CHAP. XXXI.
An Act to protect all Persons in the United States in their Civil Rights, and furnish the Means of their Vindication.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That all persons born in the United States and not subject to any foreign power, excluding Indians not taxed, are hereby declared to be citizens of the United States; and such citizens, of every race and color, without regard to any previous condition of slavery or involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall have the same right, in every State and Territory in the United States, to make and enforce contracts, to sue, be parties, and give evidence, to inherit, purchase, lease, sell, hold, and convey real and personal property, and to full and equal benefit of all laws and proceedings for the security of person and property, as is enjoyed by white citizens, and shall be subject to like punishment, pains, and penalties, and to none other, any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, to the contrary notwithstanding.
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I bolded one part for emphasis.

So. We're gonna recognize every person born here as a citizen, except "Indians". Or as we refer to them today, Native Americans.



All are citizens of America, except Native Americans.




:alienhuh:


Now before you start, I know well and good what this provision was intended to do. And I know all about applying morals of one era to the deeds of another. Still...

FTR, this was vetoed by andrew johnson. lincoln's vice president. You know...lincoln. The great emancipator. The guy handing out freedom left and right. That eternal defender of human rights. Guess "Indians" weren't human.
 
They are considered beyond citizens now in some ways.
Their reservations are almost like it's own sub-country.

e.g. like the no tax on gambling...

The states need to get back the rights like that.:hairbang:

IMO I see them as original land owners, that the gov swindle them out of,
and I know how they feel, first hand in some ways.
 
catocom said:
They are considered beyond citizens now in some ways.
Their reservations are almost like it's own sub-country.

e.g. like the no tax on gambling...

The states need to get back the rights like that.:hairbang:

IMO I see them as original land owners, that the gov swindle them out of,
and I know how they feel, first hand in some ways.
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To get some of those benefits you need to live on the Res.

Have you ever seen one, here anyway, not so pleasent, though the one in alberta is damn nice (parts of the oil sands are on a res.)
 
If there has ever been a race of people on this continent with a legitimate reason to bitch, it's them.

Unless, that is, you find yourself an acolyte of the

Gonz said:
Might equals right
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school of thought.
 
SouthernN'Proud said:
If there has ever been a race of people on this continent with a legitimate reason to bitch, it's them.
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Seems to me that they did. They got ignored. Some of them then bitched even more. They got killed. :shrug:

Can you say "manifest destiny?" I knew that you could.
 
excluding Indians not taxed
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Please, read this in the context in which it was written...namely legalese.

Indians would be citizens if they chose to live with the rest of us. Indians, not taxed would be those that are on the reservation...excluding themselves from citizenship.

Might makes right? You're smoking that funny stuff again aren't you?
 
"Indians" chose to live where they had lived for hundreds of years. Eurotrash chose to relocate them.

And c'mon Gonz. They had a choice?

And to my legalese, untaxed people are people who don't pay taxes. Once again, it all comes down to a dollar with the high and mighty fedral gubmint. And you, misguided and deluded, defend it. Cuz it wasn't you or yours it happened to.

But you don't advocate might equals right. Want me to find the post where you said that word for word? Might equals right defines every stance you take. You defend the invasion of a country seeking freedom. You defend the forced removal of those who occupied land others wanted. You defend the actions of rabid misguided looters who raped pillaged and plundered the lame and the elderly. Who smokes what around here?
 
SouthernN'Proud said:
And c'mon Gonz. They had a choice?
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They had options, yes. I didn't say they were good ones.

SouthernN'Proud said:
And to my legalese, untaxed people are people who don't pay taxes.
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Never been to a reservation have you?

SouthernN'Proud said:
Once again, it all comes down to a dollar with the high and mighty fedral gubmint. And you, misguided and deluded, defend it. Cuz it wasn't you or yours it happened to.
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It was 200 years ago. (or 150)...it didn't happen to any of us.

SouthernN'Proud said:
You defend the invasion of a country seeking freedom. You defend the forced removal of those who occupied land others wanted. You defend the actions of rabid misguided looters who raped pillaged and plundered the lame and the elderly. Who smokes what around here?
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It all comes back to that doesn't it? It's over. Move on.
 
No, I've never been to a reservation. Seen plenty of photographs, read enough testimonials to turn your stomach, and decided it wasn't my place to turn these people into tourist attractions.

No, it didn't happen to any of us, but it damn sure happened to my ancestors, and it damn sure carries over to the present day economically. So no, it really isn't over, and I won't move on and shut up like a good little whupped pup so everybody can continue feeling smug and self content. Y'all would like that, I am aware, because every time you're reminded of what happened you feel a little uncomfortable maybe. Every time it's mentioned that the only time the US military ever mobilized to DENY a people freedom from despotism and abusive government was when it invaded the Southern states, the squirming starts because there ain't nowhere to run. So no, I flat refuse to feed the delusion you and millions of others are content swallowing. I know what I know, I know what I've seen, and I have seen changes and shifts happen once people have their eyes opened. If it's gotta be one person at a time, that's OK. If 90% choose to wallow in their delusion after being exposed to factual truths because they prefer the delusion, that's OK too. But like it or not, this here's one Rebel that ain't signin no loyalty oath, purity pledge, or any damn thing of the sort. Regardless of how convenient it might be for others, I ain't about to let the truth stay swept under a rug of propoganda lies, all so some poor-ass hypocrite despot can be worshipped.

Speaking of the bastard, guess you never heard about how he treated "Indians" out in Minnesooooooooooota, huh? (Nice how all that came full circle, doncha think? The truth has a way of doin that...)
 
I've disproved Article I Section 8 til I'm red in the neck.

Want me to ring that bell for ya? Make it a little louder? Say the word.
 
Gonz said:
Minnesota & Indians...rings a bell but not very loudly.
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So y'all won't think I made this up and such

Pasted straight from the site. You can tell I didn't write it because lincoln is capitalized.

Authorities in Minnesota asked President Lincoln to order the immediate execution of all 303 Indian males found guilty. Lincoln was concerned with how this would play with the Europeans, whom he was afraid were about to enter the war on the side of the South. He offered the following compromise to the politicians of Minnesota: They would pare the list of those to be hung down to 39. In return, Lincoln promised to kill or remove every Indian from the state and provide Minnesota with 2 million dollars in federal funds. Remember, he only owed the Sioux 1.4 million for the land.

So, on December 26, 1862, the Great Emancipator ordered the largest mass execution in American History, where the guilt of those to be executed was entirely in doubt. Regardless of how Lincoln defenders seek to play this, it was nothing more than murder to obtain the land of the Santee Sioux and to appease his political cronies in Minnesota.
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So you tell me...were these "Indians" taxed or untaxed people? Citizens? No, not yet I suppose, that didn't pass for another four years...guess that made them "property". No, that can't be right, only them despicable Southerners treated people like property...

Damn. Guess you'll have to set me straight. Again.

:barfonu:
 
I've made it clear what my argument against your thoughts are about the Civil War (a rose by any other name....).

You continue to place words in my mouth. Words that have nothing to do with our disagreement. If you would be so kind as to stop that annoying trait, I'd be grateful.
 
And if you'd stop insisting that one phrase applies to every aspect of every issue we'd get somewhere.

Attempt two: Were these "Indians" taxed or untaxed human beings?

The underlying point here is this: How can a "Native __________" NOT be a "____________"?
 
I don't know. Were they living on a reservation? If so....wait, that may not have been the case....are the Indians voluntarily living on reservations Americans, today?

The reservation is under different rules than general society.

BTW-that one phrase does apply. The South, et al, attempted an insurrection. Again, call it what you will but the end result is no difference.
 
They've had it up to here with this country.


WASHINGTON — The Lakota Indians, who gave the world legendary warriors Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse, have withdrawn from treaties with the United States.

"We are no longer citizens of the United States of America and all those who live in the five-state area that encompasses our country are free to join us,'' long-time Indian rights activist Russell Means said.

"The U.S. "annexation'' of native American land has resulted in once proud tribes such as the Lakota becoming mere "facsimiles of white people,'' said Means. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,317548,00.html
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Gonz said:
You're smoking that funny stuff again aren't you?
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You speak with forked tongue.


Peyote, dammit. It's sacred.
 
....That all persons born in the United States and not subject to any foreign power, excluding Indians not taxed....

the status of native americans was in flux at the time. skirmishes and whatnot were happening almost up until the turn of the 20th century. thus it's a sensible exclusion.
 
Gonz said:
I don't know. Were they living on a reservation? If so....wait, that may not have been the case....are the Indians voluntarily living on reservations Americans, today?

The reservation is under different rules than general society.

BTW-that one phrase does apply. The South, et al, attempted an insurrection. Again, call it what you will but the end result is no difference.
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Seeing as lincoln was buying the land off the Sioux, I wouldn't think it was a reservation. But what does logic and straightforward thinking have to do with anything?

The part about him promising to kill every one of them...that doesn't strike you as, oh I dunno...pure unadulterated evil perhaps?

Last attempt. How can a native ANYTHING not BE that thing? Is a native tree not a tree? That is the one question that caused me to post this anyway, and ain't nobody answered that yet.
 
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