Pro-Death

[Ardsgaine]

So I'm running around the house playing with my kid, and in kind of a giddy mood when suddenly the phone rings. I pick it up and this cheerful female voice says...

Girl: Hi, I'm Erica _____ with the Pro-Life Movement, and--

Me: Oh, I'm definitely not pro-life!

Girl: Okay, well thank y--

Me: No, I'm pro-death. (Burst of giddy laughter.)

Girl: (Silence.)

*Click*

 

[Jeslek]

Lol, that was so funny!

I'm against murdering babies, but I'm SO for public executions of convicted criminals!

 

[Ardsgaine]

I'm against murdering babies

Uh, yeah. Me too.

but I'm SO for public executions of convicted criminals!

Mmm. Public, eh? No, thanks for my part. No need to turn it into a show, just do it and be done with it.

 

[Jeslek]

By public I mean anyone that requests seeing the execution should be able to go and witness it. Not just relatives and close ones.

 

[[b]]

I'm pro choice, sorta. I believe a woman has every right to make that decision. What I think really shouldn't matter (unless it was my child). I would hope, however, that the woman in question would chose some alternative to an abortion if possible.

As for the other pro death choices:

Capitol Punishment - as last resort after rehabilitation or exile on certain crimes. Public viewing is kinda weird. I'm not sure about that. What's a good reason for letting a person watch another person die?

Euthanasia - People have the right to choose to die. Should help be offered or available? Sure. But why force a person to continue living if they no longer wish to do so?

 

[Justintime]

hehe, i gotta use that sometime

 

[unclehobart]

2 words: soylent green

 

[Ardsgaine]

2 words: soylent green

"It's people!"

 

[Jeslek]

I'm pro choice, sorta. I believe a woman has every right to make that decision.

I don't like you, so you must die. I should therefore have the right to kill you, right? Or can only women decide to butcher other people? Isn't that sexist?

Everyone that assisted, requested, helped, or that was involved in an abortion should be charged with first or second degree murder and tried as such. That will downsize our population quite a bit, all for the good. If we can allow murderers to live, we are just as bad as them.

 

[Shadowfax]

LL ~ so a mother can't decide whether she wants to keep the baby or not?

Did it EVER occur in your mind that there are perhaps mothers who don't have the money to raise the little kid? Give it a good life? Or are you saying she'd better keep the baby and give it no prospect to a good life at all?
Maybe that girl (like many in Great Brittain) of woman didn't want a baby at all. Maybe it was an accident.
Of course you'll say that she must have thought that before getting pregnant. Fact is that the girl is pregnant, and she has no option to undo the whole thing. But wait! She has the option to spare the kid the horror of a poor life, or a single parent life, or maybe something else which causes the kid to have no future at all.

Or did it ever occur to you that there are also women who get raped? Yeah! That happens in RL you know! Those women already have an enormeous mental breakdown. And then they are forced to carry the baby of that filthy raper, because law doesn't allow abortion due to the short sighted fragile little minds of people like you.

YES I HAVE SEEN THAT HAPPEN TO PEOPLE CLOSE TO ME :mad2:

I guess you haven't, or otherwise you wouldn't speak such idiotic crap!


Is it justice in your point of view to solve a small portion of our problems with to many people in countries by killing people who helped another human?
Is THAT right? Well, is it?!
You'd say that ISN'T butcher huh?

And you're making another mistake in your worthless arguements: you're saying

If we can allow murderers to live, we are just as bad as them.

Well, what about those people who must murder those people you call criminals? They are murderers too, they too killed a human being.

Or is that justice in your point of view? I sure don't think so.

I think I can speak for more people then just me when I say you must THINK before you reply. Not this kind of idiotic bullshit you're saying.

Go talk to a few people who got raped, or a few people who had to raise their kids without having any money at all. And then have the nerves to make such a statement again.

 

[Ardsgaine]

Or can only women decide to butcher other people?

No one has argued that it's right to kill other people. The argument comes from what you're defining as a 'person.' Just like 'pro-life' and 'killing babies,' you're using terms that beg the question. Pro-abortionists do not believe that a fetus is a baby or a person. Therefore, it doesn't make sense to ask them if they believe that "only women should be allowed to butcher other people," because they disagree with the premise of your question.

That's the whole reason why I was making fun of the girl who called me on the phone. She identified herself as pro-life, by which I understood her to mean anti-abortion, and since I believe the exact opposite, obviously she must think I'm pro-death. Well, why not have some fun with her?

If you want to have a real debate on the subject, explain to us why you think that life begins at the very moment of conception, and then we can argue about whether you're right or not.

 

[unclehobart]

Perhaps we should just link this to the other half dozen abortion debates so we dont start triple repeating ourselves... like we always do.

 

[Ardsgaine]

I guess you haven't, or otherwise you wouldn't speak such idiotic crap!

If, as the anti-abortionists believe, life begins at conception, what difference would it make whether she was raped or not? Why would you follow rape with murder? You're not addressing the fundamental point. All you're doing is screaming at him and calling him an idiot.

Is it justice in your point of view to solve a small portion of our problems with to many people in countries by killing people who helped another human?
Is THAT right? Well, is it?!
You'd say that ISN'T butcher huh?

I don't even follow what you're saying with that...

Well, what about those people who must murder those people you call criminals? They are murderers too, they too killed a human being.

Not all killing is murder. If a man comes through my door with the intent to kill me, and I shoot him first, it wasn't murder. I killed him in self-defense. Use words exactly.

Or is that justice in your point of view?

Yes.

I think I can speak for more people then just me when I say you must THINK before you reply. Not this kind of idiotic bullshit you're saying.

You're just as guilty as he is.

A good argument should reveal the structure of your beliefs. If you want to communicate with someone, rather than scream at them, then figure out what you believe and why you believe it. Show them the premises that your arguments are based on. You may or may not convince them, but at least both of you will have a clearer understanding of what it is that you disagree about.

 

[Ardsgaine]

Perhaps we should just link this to the other half dozen abortion debates so we dont start triple repeating ourselves... like we always do.

Or I could just turn it into an argument about how to argue... or has that been done already?

 

[nalani]

OMG, Ards ... you are soooo quickly becoming my favorite member

 

[Shadowfax]

Ardsgaine, don't try to lecture me on whether I make valid arguements to make my statements clear.

Is it justice in your point of view to solve a small portion of our problems with to many people in countries by killing people who helped another human?
Is THAT right? Well, is it?!
You'd say that ISN'T butcher huh?

I admit that was really FUBAR-ed english. But it was in response of his idiotic comment made here:

Everyone that assisted, requested, helped, or that was involved in an abortion should be charged with first or second degree murder and tried as such. That will downsize our population quite a bit, all for the good.

I read that like: kill the people who helped with the abortion, that'll help solve our overpopulation a little bit. Maybe my interpretation was wrong?

Not all killing is murder. If a man comes through my door with the intent to kill me, and I shoot him first, it wasn't murder. I killed him in self-defense. Use words exactly.

That's a matter of how you define murder. You may find killing those people justified, thus not worth calling it murder. I'm convinced that killing those people is wrong because they didn't do anything wrong, thus making it murder.
Killing people who assisted in an abortion is murder in my opinion. And I really can't see how people can call that justice.
And if you can't understand that, I sure hope you get the 'opportunity' to have a close relative get raped and getting pregnant. Wonder if that'll make you change your point of view.
Sounds harsh? Yeah, but this topic is.

If, as the anti-abortionists believe, life begins at conception, what difference would it make whether she was raped or not? Why would you follow rape with murder? You're not addressing the fundamental point. All you're doing is screaming at him and calling him an idiot.

I don't agree on the point of view of the anti-abortionist. Thus it does make a difference whether she's raped or not in my point of view. And that is what this is all about; people's point of view on this topic.
It's not quite clear to me whether you follow their point of view or not...also a small mishap in your communication towards me I guess...so don't lecture me.

A good argument should reveal the structure of your beliefs. If you want to communicate with someone, rather than scream at them, then figure out what you believe and why you believe it. Show them the premises that your arguments are based on. You may or may not convince them, but at least both of you will have a clearer understanding of what it is that you disagree about.

You don't have to tell me how to make my statements clear. I thought I was quite clear on how my point of view was concerning abortion.
I got pissed at the guy because he made some really idiot comments without even TRYING to explain why he made them. It is quite clear he hadn't had any relatives, friends or whatever who was in that position. So he doesn't know where he is talking about.
I've seen it happen to close relatives, so I know what I'm talking about.

 

[Jeslek]

OK so Shadowfax, because person X raped girl Y, kid Z has to die for the crime committed. Good sense of justice you guys have. Makes for an excellent point in supporting the International Criminal Court. So, every time someone commits a violent crime, we knock off a few kids as justice.

And, just because the girl and boy had an accident and they can't support a kid, we knock him off. Same as saying, hm, look at all the hunger in Africa, lets kill a couple of hundred of children because "we can't feed them."

Yes, my arguments are based on the fact that a fetus is a human person. Why would someone say it isn't? It has the same DNA strands and the same cells. What is so special about giving birth that suddenly we can now classify the baby as human? Isn't the baby virtually the same the minute before birth as the minute after birth except in physical location? The heart beats, the brain functions, there is motor control over the muscles, and he or she will even suck their thumb.

There is this story... A farmer had a son. The son worked hard, but when he became 17 he decided he wanted to go to the city. The dad didn't like that idea, so he and his wife decided on an abortion. The kid fought wild and shot his dad 3 times before the mother could kill him. Afterall, he used to be part of her body. If I shave all my hair, I can burn it yes? It used to be part of my body. They were just applying the same principles.

You may be confortable killing kids for fun, but I am not, and I'm always ashamed to see how many kids we are murdering in the United States and across the world every day.

 

[Jeslek]

Posted by Shadowfax:

I sure hope you get the 'opportunity' to have a close relative get raped and getting pregnant

You are a sick man. I wouldn't wish that for anyone.

 

[PT]

First of all, I'm quite certain that that was not what Shadowfox meant by the hoping you have a family member raped. He was only expressing that you do not understand, because you obviously haven't lived it.

Person X raped Girl Y, should Girl Y have to raise a child that will always remind her of the rape, and a child that she will most likely grow to despise? I think not.

I'm not going to say that a fetus magically becomes a person at birth, a person is a person when they have Awareness, a fetus two to three months along does not have awareness. I don't agree with the people who use abortion as a form of birth control, however there are instances that abortion should be considered as an alternative.

 

[Shadowfax]

Yes, my arguments are based on the fact that a fetus is a human person. Why would someone say it isn't? It has the same DNA strands and the same cells. What is so special about giving birth that suddenly we can now classify the baby as human? Isn't the baby virtually the same the minute before birth as the minute after birth except in physical location? The heart beats, the brain functions, there is motor control over the muscles, and he or she will even suck their thumb.

Uhm, you're comparing a baby in a timespan of 1 minute. Abortion is not possible after a few weeks. Sorry, can't say a fetus of 4 weeks is human. DNA may be the same, but I wouldn't call it human.

Different point of view. I respect yours, hope you do the same.


And for calling me a sick man, I may be. But I tried to make you understand that there is a difference between abortion because people just don't want kids and abortion with a good reason. And rape is a good reason. But I guess you can't imagine that without experiencing such a situation from close by.
Therefore the comment. It wasn't meant as a true whish. I'm not that sick. I hope that such a situation wouldn't ever occur anymore. All I wanted to do is make you realize that it is hard to judge when you haven't experienced such a situation.
Nothing more, nothing less.