Gato_Solo
Out-freaking-standing OTC member
of racial profiling. Once again, I ask the question. If you stop 25% of the drivers on a routine basis, why is it so hard to believe that you won't find something?
Proof positive
- Thread starter Gato_Solo
- Start date
SouthernN'Proud
Southern Discomfort
And it will continue until blacks and Hispanics stop committing the majority of crimes. Guilt by association? Maybe. But it's no different than any other stereotype. Until the statistics concerning conviction change, it's gonna keep happening.
Gato_Solo
Out-freaking-standing OTC member
SouthernN'Proud said:
Which came first, the stereotype, or the actual criminal activity? You're saying that the amount of stops is justified because of the amount of criminal activity. I'm saying that the amount of criminal activity being reported is only because of the amount of stops.
unclehobart
New Member
Just simpliy the system. No more stops... just a 2 stage lottery: A big ol' computer spits out your name as being guilty of a crime. A second draw sez what crime you did and how long to serve. No more expensive investigations. No more drawn out court battles. No more profiling. No more being hassled by the man.
SouthernN'Proud
Southern Discomfort
No idea which preceded which. Don't know how it's ever going to be stopped.
Don't know how it differs from any other stereotype. Stereotypes suck, huh?
All I know for fact is the statistics on crime I see five days a week 8-4:30. They tell me a lot. I've been in courtrooms in places varying in size from Nashville to Sneedville. (Don't worry if you've never heard of Sneedville. It's the county seat of Hancock County, TN, and most of us could hit a golf ball from one end of town to the other.) I've been inside maximum security prisons, county jails, and regional workhouses in every size county imaginable. I know what I see.
Nashville is as diverse racially as any other major city. To contrast, Rogersville is almost exclusively white. I see representative mixes in these jails on every visit. I see very close to the same population breakdown in the courtrooms as exists on the street. I know some folks are more likely to be stopped in a small, rural, mostly white town than I am. I know I am more likely to be stopped in an urban metro setting..a 4X4 pickup truck with Confederate battle flags all over it does tend to draw attention.
So if that's racial profiling, it happens both ways, in all settings, across all social variables. I call that equality.
Every year, we get statistics on crime, recidivism, you name it. It's essential data in my line of work. As a matter of interest, I read them fairly thoroughly and critically. It is true that a greater per capita percentage of blacks and Hispanics get convicted of crimes in this country. It is also true, though less widely reporetd, that a greater per capita percentage of blacks and Hispanics are arrested then not convicted. In fact, per capita more whites that are arrested get convicted than either blacks or Hispanics unless one factors in white collar crimes such as embezzelment etc.
Kinda breaks up the mold cast for us by Katie Couric and her ilk, doesn't it?
From my own experience, I can make the following observations:
Sex crimes: mostly whites arrested as well as convicted. Almost exclusively male, but female offenders are on the rise. My best estimate - 85% white males, the rest fairly equally distributed.
Property crimes - almost evenly distributed. More whites convicted of forgery, more blacks for theft, more females for forgery, more males for theft. Call it even.
Violent crimes - about 70% male. More likely to involve a wepapon if male, particularly firearms. Among males, maybe 60% white 30% black 10% Hispanic. Please note, however, that this area doesn't have a very significant Hispanic population with the exception of two counties bordering my own.
Drug crimes - these days these are the bulk of what I see. Most thefts, forgeries, etc are committed to get drugs, some assaults are drug rekated...same everywhere I wager. I consider this catagory the most reliable for racial purposes simply beause it crosses more social lines than the other catagories. Rich, poor, black, white...everybody's gettin' high these days. What I notice - more blacks are involved with Cocaine than other races. These crimes carry stiffer jail sentences, therefore they get prison time more often than probation. More whites are convicted of meth crimes than other races. In fact, I do not recall a single black being convicted of a meth crime here yet. Though a recent raid yielded some suspicious sounding names. Tennessee is in the top five states for meth production, and my region (Upper East Tennessee) is particularly infested. I imagine I could stumble across a dozen meth labs within a ten mile radius of my house, and I'm being conservative with that estimate.
Long and short of it...yes it exists, but for good reason in my eyes. When one race makes up, say, 30% of the population yet is convicted of 45% of the crimes committed....when the same race consistently yields something like 55% having been in jail at least once by the time they are 40 years old...what would anyone expect?
I realize you will disagree with some of my logic. I would too, probably. All I can go on is what I see. And since OTC has yet, to my knowledge, to boast a policeman, a criminal attorney, a criminal judge, or any other law enforcement professional among its roster save myself, I feel compelled to provide what insight I can. Don't shoot the messenger.
Don't know how it differs from any other stereotype. Stereotypes suck, huh?
All I know for fact is the statistics on crime I see five days a week 8-4:30. They tell me a lot. I've been in courtrooms in places varying in size from Nashville to Sneedville. (Don't worry if you've never heard of Sneedville. It's the county seat of Hancock County, TN, and most of us could hit a golf ball from one end of town to the other.) I've been inside maximum security prisons, county jails, and regional workhouses in every size county imaginable. I know what I see.
Nashville is as diverse racially as any other major city. To contrast, Rogersville is almost exclusively white. I see representative mixes in these jails on every visit. I see very close to the same population breakdown in the courtrooms as exists on the street. I know some folks are more likely to be stopped in a small, rural, mostly white town than I am. I know I am more likely to be stopped in an urban metro setting..a 4X4 pickup truck with Confederate battle flags all over it does tend to draw attention.
So if that's racial profiling, it happens both ways, in all settings, across all social variables. I call that equality.
Every year, we get statistics on crime, recidivism, you name it. It's essential data in my line of work. As a matter of interest, I read them fairly thoroughly and critically. It is true that a greater per capita percentage of blacks and Hispanics get convicted of crimes in this country. It is also true, though less widely reporetd, that a greater per capita percentage of blacks and Hispanics are arrested then not convicted. In fact, per capita more whites that are arrested get convicted than either blacks or Hispanics unless one factors in white collar crimes such as embezzelment etc.
Kinda breaks up the mold cast for us by Katie Couric and her ilk, doesn't it?
From my own experience, I can make the following observations:
Sex crimes: mostly whites arrested as well as convicted. Almost exclusively male, but female offenders are on the rise. My best estimate - 85% white males, the rest fairly equally distributed.
Property crimes - almost evenly distributed. More whites convicted of forgery, more blacks for theft, more females for forgery, more males for theft. Call it even.
Violent crimes - about 70% male. More likely to involve a wepapon if male, particularly firearms. Among males, maybe 60% white 30% black 10% Hispanic. Please note, however, that this area doesn't have a very significant Hispanic population with the exception of two counties bordering my own.
Drug crimes - these days these are the bulk of what I see. Most thefts, forgeries, etc are committed to get drugs, some assaults are drug rekated...same everywhere I wager. I consider this catagory the most reliable for racial purposes simply beause it crosses more social lines than the other catagories. Rich, poor, black, white...everybody's gettin' high these days. What I notice - more blacks are involved with Cocaine than other races. These crimes carry stiffer jail sentences, therefore they get prison time more often than probation. More whites are convicted of meth crimes than other races. In fact, I do not recall a single black being convicted of a meth crime here yet. Though a recent raid yielded some suspicious sounding names. Tennessee is in the top five states for meth production, and my region (Upper East Tennessee) is particularly infested. I imagine I could stumble across a dozen meth labs within a ten mile radius of my house, and I'm being conservative with that estimate.
Long and short of it...yes it exists, but for good reason in my eyes. When one race makes up, say, 30% of the population yet is convicted of 45% of the crimes committed....when the same race consistently yields something like 55% having been in jail at least once by the time they are 40 years old...what would anyone expect?
I realize you will disagree with some of my logic. I would too, probably. All I can go on is what I see. And since OTC has yet, to my knowledge, to boast a policeman, a criminal attorney, a criminal judge, or any other law enforcement professional among its roster save myself, I feel compelled to provide what insight I can. Don't shoot the messenger.
MrBishop
Well-Known Member
What are the odds of doing something criminal at any given point during your day X odds of you being stopped during the course of your day = odds of you being arrested or fined during the course of your day. (X365=per year)
**By criminal, I mean anything from speeding or burning a red light to possession of narcotics, violent crimes etc..**
If all races have the same level of occurence of criminal activity per diem (averaged out), but a group of races have a greater chance of being stopped, then that group will have higher odds of being arrested or fined/day.
Some crimes are easier to catch than others. White collar crimes are more difficult to catch. A beat-cop certainly ain't going to do it. Violence and drug crimes are more obvious. So is theft.
All these kinds of things have to be taken into effect when looking at who gets arrested more often and who goes to jail more often.
**By criminal, I mean anything from speeding or burning a red light to possession of narcotics, violent crimes etc..**
If all races have the same level of occurence of criminal activity per diem (averaged out), but a group of races have a greater chance of being stopped, then that group will have higher odds of being arrested or fined/day.
Some crimes are easier to catch than others. White collar crimes are more difficult to catch. A beat-cop certainly ain't going to do it. Violence and drug crimes are more obvious. So is theft.
All these kinds of things have to be taken into effect when looking at who gets arrested more often and who goes to jail more often.
SouthernN'Proud
Southern Discomfort
But a given that x% of crimes are committed by persons fitting Y profile shouldn't?
Get real.
Get real.
MrBishop
Well-Known Member
s'not what I was saying...more like racial profiling is like a self-fullfilling prophesy. If you're only looking for <insert race here> in relation to crime X, then the majority of people that you catch will be <insert race here>. Not to say that only <insert race here> are the only people committing crime X. That kinda thinking lets off other races and profiles because they're not likely to commit crime X.SouthernN'Proud said:
SouthernN'Proud
Southern Discomfort
Then we have very different definitions of the term profiling.
I have yet to become aware of a single police department anywhere that would only investigate <insert race here> for certain crimes. And neither have you.
I have yet to become aware of a single police department anywhere that would only investigate <insert race here> for certain crimes. And neither have you.
JJR512
New Member
If a man is going to murder someone, he's more likely to use a gun, or something else from a distance. The man does his killing remotely, coldly, and cleanly.
If a woman is going to murder someone, she's more likely to use a knife or some other up-close object. The woman does her killing up close and personal, messy and passionate.
If a woman is going to murder someone, she's more likely to use a knife or some other up-close object. The woman does her killing up close and personal, messy and passionate.
SouthernN'Proud
Southern Discomfort
Actually, she's more likely to use drugs or poison.
crystal scan
Banned
is this thread about someone getting killed 
crystal scan
Banned
chcr said:
ok
