Putting Saddam's conviction into perspective

MrBishop

Well-Known Member
No end to mess created in Iraq​

By SCOTT TAYLOR On Target

THE ANNOUNCEMENT of Saddam Hussein’s guilty verdict on the eve of the U.S. congressional elections generated some of the most desperate propaganda since Bush first invaded Iraq back in 2003.

The U.S. State Department immediately applauded the verdict and declared that Saddam’s trial proves that an independent judiciary has been successfully established in Baghdad.

On top of that, President George W. Bush proclaimed that Saddam’s conviction served to justify the U.S.-led intervention.

To quickly recap, Saddam was found guilty for his involvement in a 1982 incident in which his troops executed 148 Shiite rebels in the village of Dujail. The slaying of the Shiites was in retaliation for an attempted assassination the previous day, when rebel gunmen had fired a deadly fusillade into Saddam’s official convoy.

At the time, Iraq was fully engaged in a decade-long war of attrition with Iran and Tehran clerics used their influence to inspire a Shiite uprising against Saddam’s Sunni regime.

Although the U.S. never really loved Saddam, while his military was being bled white fighting the Iranians, his secular dictatorship was considered to be the lesser of the two regional evils.

As such, the Reagan administration did not raise the issue of the Dujail massacre at the time it occurred. In fact, in 1984, Reagan dispatched his special envoy — none other than Donald Rumsfeld — to Baghdad to offer Saddam the military means necessary to continue the struggle against Iran.

Right up until the ceasefire was signed in 1988, the U.S. supported Saddam with arms shipments, including the chemical weapons he employed against both Iranian troops and Kurdish rebels.

Put in that perspective, Bush’s conclusion that Saddam’s guilt in the 1982 Dujail incident justified the 2003 invasion seems absolutely ludicrous.

To suggest that the civil court that convicted the former Iraqi president is independent is equally laughable.

Throughout the course of the show trial, U.S.-appointed judges and prosecutors were replaced, resigned or removed and several of the defence lawyers appointed to defend Saddam were brutally murdered.

As the proceedings wound their way to the preordained verdict, Saddam and his co-defendants staged hunger strikes, were denied access to their counsel and appeared in court in their underwear.

Only Hollywood’s celebrity murder trials could be considered more farcical.

In a tremendous effort to paint Saddam’s death penalty as a step forward for war-ravaged Iraq, American media outlets broadcasted scenes of jubilant Iraqis celebrating the verdict. Chanting, dancing and waving placards, the Shiite residents of the Baghdad suburb of Sadr City rejoiced on cue.

In broken English, a number of residents in this impoverished district told reporters that death is too good for Saddam and they regret that the former president will only hang once for his crimes.

While Americans were preparing to head out to their polls the following day, I’m sure at least a few of them were reassured to see so many smiling Iraqi faces. Between Bush justifying the invasion and Iraqis denouncing Saddam, it probably seems as though a successful conclusion to the Iraq nightmare could be just around the corner.

However, a closer examination of the placards waved in Sadr City that day might have snuffed out that flicker of hope. Those dancing Shiites were holding pictures of the radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.

Sponsored by Tehran, al-Sadr is a fundamentalist and an extremist. His fanatical Badr brigade militia clashed briefly with U.S. forces when they tried to arrest their leader in April 2004.

Since those failed battles, in which the U.S. 2nd Armoured Cavalry mowed them down in the hundreds, al-Sadr has primarily employed his Shiite military force to battle Sunni rivals.

So while the chanting mob may be elated at the elimination of their former nemesis, a secular Sunni dictator, it is their intention to replace Saddam’s regime with an even more repressive fundamentalist Islamic state.

In a sense, the crowd was cheering the removal of the frying pan so they could move directly into the fire.

Following the November 7 vote, the Democrats gained control of the entire U.S. Congress and Donald Rumsfeld resigned as defence secretary. As a result, many Americans believe that a withdrawal of their troops from Iraq is imminent.

However, for those closely watching the transforming violence in Iraq, it is obvious that any such premature American pullout would only result in an all-out civil war, a huge increase in bloodshed and set in motion a further destabilization of the entire Middle East.

The lame-duck Bush administration had better hope Saddam drags out his execution through a lengthy appeal process.

Otherwise, with Rumsfeld already departed, there will be no one left to pin this whole mess on but George W. Bush himself.

www.espritdecorps.ca
 
yeah i wonder how many hundreds of billions of dollars will have been flushed down the iraqi rathole before we extract ourselves in humiliation.

hundreds of billions. for shit.

go team!
 
It's only a humiliation if we don't follow through until the end. Been there....don't wanna do that.
 
Following the November 7 vote, the Democrats gained control of the entire U.S. Congress and Donald Rumsfeld resigned as defence secretary. As a result, many Americans believe that a withdrawal of their troops from Iraq is imminent.

However, for those closely watching the transforming violence in Iraq, it is obvious that any such premature American pullout would only result in an all-out civil war, a huge increase in bloodshed and set in motion a further destabilization of the entire Middle East.

The lame-duck Bush administration had better hope Saddam drags out his execution through a lengthy appeal process.

Otherwise, with Rumsfeld already departed, there will be no one left to pin this whole mess on but George W. Bush himself.

1. Learn to spell defense.

2. Do NOT commence to hollerin about too soon to withdraw troops. The demorats have been squawking about that line of chickenshit nonsense long enough to get elected over it. Now it needs to happen. No effing way yer gonna blame Bush for keeping them there and then blame him if they get pulled out. Unlike your fantasies, here in the real world you don't get to have it both ways.

3. Not everything that happens on the planet is Bush's fault. It rained here all weekend, making our move into our new home quite the muddy mess. Despite my ill temper over the rain and accompanying mud, I do not blame Bush for it.
 
But of course. They'll investigate everything right down to his potty habits. Sour grapes stemming from the attempt to get the previous prez for screwing the hired help.
 
But of course. They'll investigate everything right down to his potty habits. Sour grapes stemming from the attempt to get the previous prez for screwing the hired help.

That one went right over your head, SnP.

BTW... Defence and Defense are both correct...depending on geography.

The former is in English and the latter, in American.
 
yeah i wonder how many hundreds of billions of dollars will have been flushed down the iraqi rathole before we extract ourselves in humiliation.

hundreds of billions. for shit.

go team!

I really don't think it'll be long now. Stay the course isn't a stay the course policy anymore and they put Rumsfield out to pasture. They're clearly getting ready to pull the plug.

It's only a humiliation if we don't follow through until the end. Been there....don't wanna do that.
But they will.
 
Pull the plug early?

Sept. 2002: “You don't know if it's going to last two days or two weeks or two months. It certainly isn't going to last two years.” Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld

Those initial cost estimates of $50 billion to $60 billion were a hoot too.
 
I really don't think it'll be long now. Stay the course isn't a stay the course policy anymore and they put Rumsfield out to pasture. They're clearly getting ready to pull the plug.

Pull the plug early?

Sept. 2002: “You don't know if it's going to last two days or two weeks or two months. It certainly isn't going to last two years.” Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld

Those initial cost estimates of $50 billion to $60 billion were a hoot too.

Where did you get "early" from?
 
So, once again, politicians were wrong about thier estimates about a war. Nothing new here. That's why pols pay & soldiers play. It's never a good idea to sit on de fence over defense.
 
But of course. They'll investigate everything right down to his potty habits. Sour grapes stemming from the attempt to get the previous prez for screwing the hired help.

After the republicans spent a fortune and endless amounts of time trying to dig up dirt on Clintons sexual habits. Investigations on national security, corruption, civil liberties, etc seem so much more reasonable don't they?
 
Clinton had several women suing him. (or trying to sue him)

Clinton had several women accusing him of some form of leacherous behavior or another.

Clinton LIED TO A GRAND JURY.

The Clintons set themselves up for investigation & dirt was found everywhere.
 
Bush has a major scandal every week on something more important than sex. If Clinton set himself up for it Bush is just begging and pleading for it.


The Democratic congressman who will investigate the Bush administration’s running of the government says there are so many areas of possible wrongdoing, his biggest problem will be deciding which ones to pursue.

There’s the response to Hurricane Katrina, government contracting in Iraq and on homeland security, decision-making at the Environmental Protection Agency and the Food and Drug Administration, and allegations of corporate profiteering, Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., told the Los Angeles Chamber of Commerce.

“I’m going to have an interesting time because the Government Reform Committee has jurisdiction over everything,” Waxman said Friday, three days after his party’s capture of Congress put him in line to chair the panel. “The most difficult thing will be to pick and choose.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15657198/
 
I really don't think it'll be long now. Stay the course isn't a stay the course policy anymore and they put Rumsfield out to pasture. They're clearly getting ready to pull the plug.


But they will.

So...once again...the US military is not allowed to do our job the way we're supposed to. Civilians and politicians in general have no idea how our job is supposed to be done, but always seem to have an opinion that we're doing it wrong. Guess thats what comes from a country that doesn't respect its military, though...

Kipling said:
TOMMY

I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!

And the beat goes on...
 
So...once again...the US military is not allowed to do our job the way we're supposed to. Civilians and politicians in general have no idea how our job is supposed to be done, but always seem to have an opinion that we're doing it wrong.

The job is to protect the country. Iraq was never a threat. Cry me a river.
 
So what is a threat? People go on and on that the troops should not go overseas and should just camp in the states and "protect our borders". These are the same people that argued for our neutrality in both of the world wars. The same people condemned Vietnam and Korea as a waste that accomplished nothing. It's very easy to complain about the lives and money spent in these conflicts, but what would the world look like if these actions were not taken? It's hard to say.

Is a country a threat to us that is a threat to its neighbors? Not directly… but using a strategy that is entire reactive to imminent threats is foolish indeed. We live in the 21st century, not the 18th century. It doesn’t take hordes of men and artillery massing across a countries border to pose a threat.

Since you say that Iraq was never a threat to us, what ever has been? Is there any county that we have invaded that was legitimate in your opinion?
 
Back
Top