RIAA says it doesn't target small downloaders
- Thread starter pc_builder
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outside looking in
<b>Registered Member</b>
AnomalousEntity said:Well you answered your own question. If I buy a couch then I: sleep, game, view tv, and other activities on it for nearly 10 years.
I actually get my "inflated moneys worth" out of the thing.
The "priviledge" to listen to a song which is freely played on the radio air waves is of virtually ZERO VALUE IN REAL MONEY to me at all.
Especially when you factor in how bad most of the other songs on the CD/Service/Album/etc . Suck ASS!
A Rolex ACTUALLY HOLDS ITS VALUE OR A SUBSTANTIAL PORTION OF IT.
Exactly how much to do think a used copy of "Saftey Dance" would go for.
Dont get me wrong I like music, its just that if Im going to give my money away, Id rather do it in a less painful way like setting it on fire in my living room floor
If they charge "the right to listen", Ill find somthing else to do.
Fine, so CD's/music has practically no value to you. I have an easy solution: DON'T LISTEN TO MUSIC.
People have been paying for albums and tapes for years without an easy "at your fingertips" method of stealing the content on them and making their own high quality album or tape. Even the first decade of CD usage didn't see any real problems.
Determining the price that the market will bear is impossible with theft is so easy and unpoliced. If you think CD's are too expensive, then don't buy them. That's simply a lame excuse to steal something.
Don't get me wrong... I'm not a saint, and I've downloaded songs from p2p networks before (mind you, not many at all). And I've used pirated software in the past. But I realized a while back that this was just wrong, and there was no legitimate justification for it.
AnomalousEntity
New Member
I have never used pirated software.
As far as music goes..
Well I never bought music back in the days of cassett tapes. I just taped what I wanted off the radio or copied my friends tapes.
Albums or 8 Tracks? Well yea I was too young to buy then but seems the music was a better value then.
CDs. I have a small collection that collects dust on the shelf because each one has about 2 good songs and 8 that suck.
So thanks for the advice but Im already taking it! I dont buy music much.
I am not sure you can "steal" somthing that is publicly broadcasted.
Does that mean if I hear it on the radio Im "stealing it" (because I always change stations during advertisments sot they dont make any $ off the advertisement on me).
If I walk buy a baseball stadium and over hear the play by play..did I "steal" somthing?
Maybe if I walk by somebody watching pay per view and watch the ending I have "stolen" that also?
We need a little reality check. The record companies and recording artists are wealthy beyond anything I can imagine and for what?
Because they have a small bit of "talent" that entertains the rest of us? Fine thats justification to make a living but not justification for them to get filthy rich IMO.
At the end you could probably find people right here on OTC with as much talent as them who are undiscovered or whos talent lies in an area not as "entertaining" yet they work every day and live pay check to pay check.
And what value does it really add to our society (im being philosophical here) anyway.
If the crap hit the fan would we need them to grow our food? Care for our sick? Engineer new technologies? No! They would be a complete waste of oxygen.
As far as music goes..
Well I never bought music back in the days of cassett tapes. I just taped what I wanted off the radio or copied my friends tapes.
Albums or 8 Tracks? Well yea I was too young to buy then but seems the music was a better value then.
CDs. I have a small collection that collects dust on the shelf because each one has about 2 good songs and 8 that suck.
So thanks for the advice but Im already taking it! I dont buy music much.
I am not sure you can "steal" somthing that is publicly broadcasted.
Does that mean if I hear it on the radio Im "stealing it" (because I always change stations during advertisments sot they dont make any $ off the advertisement on me).
If I walk buy a baseball stadium and over hear the play by play..did I "steal" somthing?
Maybe if I walk by somebody watching pay per view and watch the ending I have "stolen" that also?
We need a little reality check. The record companies and recording artists are wealthy beyond anything I can imagine and for what?
Because they have a small bit of "talent" that entertains the rest of us? Fine thats justification to make a living but not justification for them to get filthy rich IMO.
At the end you could probably find people right here on OTC with as much talent as them who are undiscovered or whos talent lies in an area not as "entertaining" yet they work every day and live pay check to pay check.
And what value does it really add to our society (im being philosophical here) anyway.
If the crap hit the fan would we need them to grow our food? Care for our sick? Engineer new technologies? No! They would be a complete waste of oxygen.
outside looking in
<b>Registered Member</b>
So if you like the coat of a new suit, but not the shoes, tie, pants, and shirt that goes with it, it's ok to steal the whole thing (or only the parts you like) because overall it doesn't have much value to you?AnomalousEntity said:
Obviously, since it's so easy to acquire through "other" means.
The courts settled this issue long ago. Just because intellectual property is made public in some form or another doesn't mean you can steal it. Patent information is made freely available to the public, yet it's illegal to use that information without permission.
No, it means you heard it on the radio station.
No, you simply overheard it. However, you are generally prohibited from recording events which were not free to see (and then even some of those). i.e., you're not allowed to video tape a concert you bought tickets to.
Now you're getting ridiculous. If someone pays for a pay-per-view movie, he can invite as many people over to watch it as he wants. That's legal. He can't record it and freely distribute the movie over the web (or charge for it, for that matter). That's illegal.
Quite right.
Most recording artists are hardly wealthy, and the recording industry is not too far from going bankrupt because of the rampant piracy. A few individuals are wealthy beyond imagination, but that is certainly not the typical state of industry professionals.
What? So now you think if someone gets paid too much for what they do (entertainment) then it's "justified" to steal the fruits of their labor? They wouldn't be "filthy rich" (the few that are) if enough people didn't value what they had to offer. If everyone just stopped buying music, they'd no longer be rich.
So now the argument is that the service they provide (entertainment) isn't critical, so it's ok to steal from them? Fine. I want you to go to a jewlery store and take everything you want... because jewlery is not really adding anything to our society, and it's just a bunch of junk that comes out of the ground anyway.
Again, I'm not a saint. I'm as guilty as the rest of you (stealing once is still stealing). The difference is that I don't delude myself. When I break the law, I know I'm breaking the law, and I know there are consequences if I get caught. I speed, not because I think speed limits are "unfair" (which I of course think they are
), but because I'm prepared to take that chance that I won't be caught breaking the law. Don't fool yourself. If you're going to steal, then acknowledge that you're a thief and that there are consequences if you are caught. Don't justify your actions by claiming that what you are stealing was too expensive to buy (again, try telling that to the cops after you rob a jewlery store), and don't get upset when the police finally come knocking on your door.And, again, I think this whole p2p thing should teach the RIAA that there is potentially a better way to distribute their material. When technology changes, business models often have to change to accomodate that. The RIAA is trying to hang on to a business model that predates the high speed internet, and it isn't going to work for much longer. They still have a legitimate concern, because as long as you can steal any song you want, many people won't do the right thing and purchase it... no matter what the price and no matter how the distribution is set up.
A last thought... I'm very uncomfortable with this general attitude people have of using piracy as a sort of leverage to demand lowered prices. If by some freak breakthrough you were able to steal any Ferrarri when you encountered one, and it was exceedingly difficult to be caught, do you think it would be right to say to Ferrarri "hey, I always thought your cars were overpriced, and if you don't drop the price to something reasonable, like $10,000, I'll just keep stealing them!"
Right. No other industry has ever had to tolerate such a situation, but this is what the RIAA faces.
AnomalousEntity
New Member
Im not saying your points are not valid, its just that I have not viewed things in complete "black and white" since I was in high school almost.
There are always shades of grey and reasons and mitigating circumstances.
I just cant get my mind around the idea of "ownership" of sounds. We are talking vibrations conducted through thin air here.
Sure I own CDs. but what I really own are several pieces of plastic that can be spun to produce music. I still dont really "own" the sounds?
Not in anywhere near the sence that I "own" a pair of shoes.
If I cant "own" them....how can I steal them?
I understand your point about the courts ruling, but thats just some s**t they came up with to try and reach a compromise that made everyone happy on that particular day.
Yes the speed limits are occasionally ridiculous in certain locations and that is the reason I speed. If I get caught fine, but if a law is stupid it should be challenged, not blindly followed.
Compared to my life style...the artist are wealthy TRUST ME ON THIS. And the same can be said for most of people I know.
As far as the recording industry going bankrupt, well thats their problem, they hardly have a history of ethical buisness practices in the first place so I say what goes around comes around.
As far as your point on jewlry, I agree 100%. Most of it is completely usless junk I dont care how "good" it looks. If it were not for the fact that other people like it and it does hold value in real dollars...Id have no use for it what so ever.
Your ferrari story doesnt really satisfy the argument. If you steal a ferrari, then another person is then MISSING THEIR FERRARI.
If you "steal" a Greenday song, does Joe Smith down the road wake up in the morning and go "holy shit, someone stole my greenday"?. NO.
What does happen? Some fat cat record company holding on to an outdated buisness model looses a slight bit of revenue that they probably didnt have any right to in the first place because they strong armed the artist into signing an unfair contract or pressured the competition into letting them have it, and then the no talent hack of a recording artist who got lucky enough to be "discovered" doesnt get to go the spa 7 times that week and only can go 6 times.
Forgive me if I dont seem too sympathetic.
The recording artist who do have talent, stay in the buisness long enough to amass a fortune (Madonna, Elton John, Bryan Adams, etc). The one hit wonders....well thats all they are and are going to be broke no matter what happens. You think Men Without Hats band members are living off of their music fortune still? We didnt have piracy in the days of Motley Crue but that doesnt stop their members from having to do spots on "The surreal Life" in order to make a few bucks.
There are always shades of grey and reasons and mitigating circumstances.
I just cant get my mind around the idea of "ownership" of sounds. We are talking vibrations conducted through thin air here.
Sure I own CDs. but what I really own are several pieces of plastic that can be spun to produce music. I still dont really "own" the sounds?
Not in anywhere near the sence that I "own" a pair of shoes.
If I cant "own" them....how can I steal them?
I understand your point about the courts ruling, but thats just some s**t they came up with to try and reach a compromise that made everyone happy on that particular day.
Yes the speed limits are occasionally ridiculous in certain locations and that is the reason I speed. If I get caught fine, but if a law is stupid it should be challenged, not blindly followed.
Compared to my life style...the artist are wealthy TRUST ME ON THIS. And the same can be said for most of people I know.
As far as the recording industry going bankrupt, well thats their problem, they hardly have a history of ethical buisness practices in the first place so I say what goes around comes around.
As far as your point on jewlry, I agree 100%. Most of it is completely usless junk I dont care how "good" it looks. If it were not for the fact that other people like it and it does hold value in real dollars...Id have no use for it what so ever.
Your ferrari story doesnt really satisfy the argument. If you steal a ferrari, then another person is then MISSING THEIR FERRARI.
If you "steal" a Greenday song, does Joe Smith down the road wake up in the morning and go "holy shit, someone stole my greenday"?. NO.
What does happen? Some fat cat record company holding on to an outdated buisness model looses a slight bit of revenue that they probably didnt have any right to in the first place because they strong armed the artist into signing an unfair contract or pressured the competition into letting them have it, and then the no talent hack of a recording artist who got lucky enough to be "discovered" doesnt get to go the spa 7 times that week and only can go 6 times.
Forgive me if I dont seem too sympathetic.
The recording artist who do have talent, stay in the buisness long enough to amass a fortune (Madonna, Elton John, Bryan Adams, etc). The one hit wonders....well thats all they are and are going to be broke no matter what happens. You think Men Without Hats band members are living off of their music fortune still? We didnt have piracy in the days of Motley Crue but that doesnt stop their members from having to do spots on "The surreal Life" in order to make a few bucks.