spike
New Member
I find it amusing and sad at the same time that lately almost all right wing talking points are irrational fear based crap. It's as if they are just trying to throw as much fear at the wall as they can and hope some of it sticks.
It doesn't matter how much of it can easily be debunked. It seems like the rational is that enough people are gullible enough to believe it without checking and this will somehow be effective.
It's not surprising as it was effective years ago but it's much less effective on the general population now as most of them have learned their lesson after Bush.
For example a right wing talking point:
A quick search reveals that Davis wasn't so much a communist or a mentor.
"In his memoir Dreams from My Father, Barack Obama wrote about "Frank", a friend of his grandfather's. "Frank" told Obama that he and Stanley (Obama's maternal grandfather) both had grown up only 50 miles apart, near Wichita, although they did not meet until Hawaii. He described the way race relations were back then, including Jim Crow, and his view that there had been little progress since then. As Obama remembered, "It made me smile, thinking back on Frank and his old Black Power, dashiki self. In some ways he was as incurable as my mother, as certain in his faith, living in the same sixties time warp that Hawaii had created."[14] Obama also remembered Frank later in life when he took a job in South Chicago as a community organizer when he took some time one day and visited the areas where Frank had lived and wrote in his book, "I imagined Frank in a baggy suit and wide lapels, standing in front of the old Regal Theatre, waiting to see Duke or Ella emerge from a gig." [15]
Gerald Horne, a contributing editor of Political Affairs magazine, claimed that "Frank" was Davis, and that he was a "decisive influence" in helping Obama to find his present identity as an African-American.[16] Claims that Davis was a political influence on Obama were made in the widely-disputed anti-Obama book The Obama Nation.[17] A rebuttal to The Obama Nation released by Obama's presidential campaign, titled Unfit for Publication, confirms that "Frank" was, in fact, Frank Marshall Davis, but disputes claims made about the nature of their relationship.[18]"
It's an excuse to get the Communist label out there. But even if Davis was a die hard communist their discussions were primarily about race relations.
"He warned against blacks accepting the Depression-era remedies being pushed by communists"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Marshall_Davis
I'm not sure why the right thinks this is going to scare people. Perhaps it will, but only if they don't put much thought into it.
Next talking point:
"When it was discovered that his grandparents, were strong socialists, sent Obama's mother to a socialist school"
A quick search doesn't really turn up anything about his grandparents being "strong socialists" or his mother going to a socialist school. The talking point doesn't indicate why we should be afraid if it were true either. Just an excuse to get another fear label out there I suppose.
The American public school system is socialized so I guess anyone who attended public school went to a "socialist school".
Next talking point:
Not sure what the point of this one is so I'm not going to even bother fact checking it. Some sort of fear based religious bigotry I suppose. We know Obama is not a muslim and it's not like we have any laws against people with muslim fathers being elected to office. Or muslims being elected. So what is going on with this one?
"Here is the accurate and more complete quote: "Of course, not all my conversations in immigrant communities follow this easy pattern. In the wake of 9/11, my meetings with Arab and Pakistani Americans, for example, have a more urgent quality, for the stories of detentions and FBI questioning and hard stares from neighbors have shaken their sense of security and belonging. They have been reminded that the history of immigration in this country has a dark underbelly; they need specific assurances that their citizenship really means something, that America has learned the right lessons from the Japanese internments during World War II, and that I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/o/obama-books.htm
Why would the right try to misinform you by distorting the quote? Seems an obvious ploy to invoke some anti-muslim bigotry. The actual quote is something all Americans should stand by to defend the freedoms of their fellow citizens.
"They, they, they. That was the problem with people like Joyce. They talked about the richness of their multicultural heritage and it sounded real good, until you noticed that they avoided black people ...
To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists and punk-rock performance poets. We smoked cigarettes and wore leather jackets. At night, in the dorms, we discussed neocolonialism, Franz Fanon, Eurocentrism, and patriarchy. When we ground out our cigarettes in the hallway carpet or set our stereos so loud that the walls began to shake, we were resisting bourgeois society's stifling conventions. We weren't indifferent or careless or insecure. We were alienated."
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/ownwords.asp
Not sure what the problem is here. I guess they got the Marxist label out there for some fear though.
"Apparently, according to the Obama campaign, In 1981 -- the year Obama transferred from Occidental College to Columbia University -- Obama visited his mother and sister Maya in Indonesia. After that visit, Obama traveled to Pakistan with a friend from college whose family was from there. The Obama campaign says Obama was in Pakistan for about three weeks, staying with his friend's family in Karachi and also visiting Hyderabad in Southern India."
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/04/obamas-college.html
So what's the fear here? Visiting Pakistan is somehow evil? WTF really? Why exactly?
Blatant lie, they're talking about the New Party. Not the Marxist Party.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Party_(United_States)
I suppose it's another way to get a misleading fear label out there.
Actually the preacher didn't hate America. He wanted to improve the plight of its black citizens. He is against some of America's policies. Just like the right is against some things America is doing now. That must mean the right hates America.
"Indeed, while Obama ranks as the magazine's most liberal senator of 2007, his ranking was 16th in 2005 and 10th in 2006."
Sure would be nice if he was more consistently liberal. That's what the people voted for. I guess the right is thinking "liberal" is a fear word except that's obviously what the people want.
WTF? Can't find anything at all substantiating this and why would it be bad in the first place. The oppressed people of Gaza can't fund raise? Even if you had some sort of Palestinian bigotry going on then what? White supremacists supported Bush. Does that make Bush something?
He has a mixed record on gun control. Pretty reasonable stuff.
http://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm
Damn it's tiring continuing to debunk right wing talking points. Is that the goal maybe? Tire people out with misinformation?
My favorite one is:
A McCain-Palin campaign ad claims Obama's "one accomplishment" in the area of education was "legislation to teach 'comprehensive sex education' to kindergarteners." But the claim is simply false, and it dates back to Alan Keyes' failed race against Obama for an open Senate seat in 2004.
"Obama, contrary to the ad's insinuation, does not support explicit sex education for kindergarteners. And the bill, which would have allowed only "age appropriate" material and a no-questions-asked opt-out policy for parents, was not his accomplishment to claim in any case, since he was not even a cosponsor – and the bill never left the state Senate."
http://www.newsweek.com/id/158314
The "homosexual indoctrination" bit is the epitome of right wing scare tactics. It makes me laugh but also makes me wonder how many gullible people actually believe this crap and get all ascared.
Why do you think there's this hardcore trend for most right wing talking points being easily debunked fear mongering, labels, and misinformation? We see it with healthcare reform and everything Obama. We saw it in the Bush campaigns. Do they really think the most effective way to push their agenda is this way over reason and facts?
It doesn't matter how much of it can easily be debunked. It seems like the rational is that enough people are gullible enough to believe it without checking and this will somehow be effective.
It's not surprising as it was effective years ago but it's much less effective on the general population now as most of them have learned their lesson after Bush.
For example a right wing talking point:
A quick search reveals that Davis wasn't so much a communist or a mentor.
"In his memoir Dreams from My Father, Barack Obama wrote about "Frank", a friend of his grandfather's. "Frank" told Obama that he and Stanley (Obama's maternal grandfather) both had grown up only 50 miles apart, near Wichita, although they did not meet until Hawaii. He described the way race relations were back then, including Jim Crow, and his view that there had been little progress since then. As Obama remembered, "It made me smile, thinking back on Frank and his old Black Power, dashiki self. In some ways he was as incurable as my mother, as certain in his faith, living in the same sixties time warp that Hawaii had created."[14] Obama also remembered Frank later in life when he took a job in South Chicago as a community organizer when he took some time one day and visited the areas where Frank had lived and wrote in his book, "I imagined Frank in a baggy suit and wide lapels, standing in front of the old Regal Theatre, waiting to see Duke or Ella emerge from a gig." [15]
Gerald Horne, a contributing editor of Political Affairs magazine, claimed that "Frank" was Davis, and that he was a "decisive influence" in helping Obama to find his present identity as an African-American.[16] Claims that Davis was a political influence on Obama were made in the widely-disputed anti-Obama book The Obama Nation.[17] A rebuttal to The Obama Nation released by Obama's presidential campaign, titled Unfit for Publication, confirms that "Frank" was, in fact, Frank Marshall Davis, but disputes claims made about the nature of their relationship.[18]"
It's an excuse to get the Communist label out there. But even if Davis was a die hard communist their discussions were primarily about race relations.
"He warned against blacks accepting the Depression-era remedies being pushed by communists"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Marshall_Davis
I'm not sure why the right thinks this is going to scare people. Perhaps it will, but only if they don't put much thought into it.
Next talking point:
"When it was discovered that his grandparents, were strong socialists, sent Obama's mother to a socialist school"
A quick search doesn't really turn up anything about his grandparents being "strong socialists" or his mother going to a socialist school. The talking point doesn't indicate why we should be afraid if it were true either. Just an excuse to get another fear label out there I suppose.
The American public school system is socialized so I guess anyone who attended public school went to a "socialist school".
Next talking point:
Not sure what the point of this one is so I'm not going to even bother fact checking it. Some sort of fear based religious bigotry I suppose. We know Obama is not a muslim and it's not like we have any laws against people with muslim fathers being elected to office. Or muslims being elected. So what is going on with this one?
"Here is the accurate and more complete quote: "Of course, not all my conversations in immigrant communities follow this easy pattern. In the wake of 9/11, my meetings with Arab and Pakistani Americans, for example, have a more urgent quality, for the stories of detentions and FBI questioning and hard stares from neighbors have shaken their sense of security and belonging. They have been reminded that the history of immigration in this country has a dark underbelly; they need specific assurances that their citizenship really means something, that America has learned the right lessons from the Japanese internments during World War II, and that I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/o/obama-books.htm
Why would the right try to misinform you by distorting the quote? Seems an obvious ploy to invoke some anti-muslim bigotry. The actual quote is something all Americans should stand by to defend the freedoms of their fellow citizens.
"They, they, they. That was the problem with people like Joyce. They talked about the richness of their multicultural heritage and it sounded real good, until you noticed that they avoided black people ...
To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists and punk-rock performance poets. We smoked cigarettes and wore leather jackets. At night, in the dorms, we discussed neocolonialism, Franz Fanon, Eurocentrism, and patriarchy. When we ground out our cigarettes in the hallway carpet or set our stereos so loud that the walls began to shake, we were resisting bourgeois society's stifling conventions. We weren't indifferent or careless or insecure. We were alienated."
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/ownwords.asp
Not sure what the problem is here. I guess they got the Marxist label out there for some fear though.
"Apparently, according to the Obama campaign, In 1981 -- the year Obama transferred from Occidental College to Columbia University -- Obama visited his mother and sister Maya in Indonesia. After that visit, Obama traveled to Pakistan with a friend from college whose family was from there. The Obama campaign says Obama was in Pakistan for about three weeks, staying with his friend's family in Karachi and also visiting Hyderabad in Southern India."
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/04/obamas-college.html
So what's the fear here? Visiting Pakistan is somehow evil? WTF really? Why exactly?
Blatant lie, they're talking about the New Party. Not the Marxist Party.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Party_(United_States)
I suppose it's another way to get a misleading fear label out there.
Actually the preacher didn't hate America. He wanted to improve the plight of its black citizens. He is against some of America's policies. Just like the right is against some things America is doing now. That must mean the right hates America.
"Indeed, while Obama ranks as the magazine's most liberal senator of 2007, his ranking was 16th in 2005 and 10th in 2006."
Sure would be nice if he was more consistently liberal. That's what the people voted for. I guess the right is thinking "liberal" is a fear word except that's obviously what the people want.
WTF? Can't find anything at all substantiating this and why would it be bad in the first place. The oppressed people of Gaza can't fund raise? Even if you had some sort of Palestinian bigotry going on then what? White supremacists supported Bush. Does that make Bush something?
He has a mixed record on gun control. Pretty reasonable stuff.
http://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm
Damn it's tiring continuing to debunk right wing talking points. Is that the goal maybe? Tire people out with misinformation?
My favorite one is:
A McCain-Palin campaign ad claims Obama's "one accomplishment" in the area of education was "legislation to teach 'comprehensive sex education' to kindergarteners." But the claim is simply false, and it dates back to Alan Keyes' failed race against Obama for an open Senate seat in 2004.
"Obama, contrary to the ad's insinuation, does not support explicit sex education for kindergarteners. And the bill, which would have allowed only "age appropriate" material and a no-questions-asked opt-out policy for parents, was not his accomplishment to claim in any case, since he was not even a cosponsor – and the bill never left the state Senate."
http://www.newsweek.com/id/158314
The "homosexual indoctrination" bit is the epitome of right wing scare tactics. It makes me laugh but also makes me wonder how many gullible people actually believe this crap and get all ascared.
Why do you think there's this hardcore trend for most right wing talking points being easily debunked fear mongering, labels, and misinformation? We see it with healthcare reform and everything Obama. We saw it in the Bush campaigns. Do they really think the most effective way to push their agenda is this way over reason and facts?
