Setting a precedent?
- Thread starter Gato_Solo
- Start date
SouthernN'Proud
Southern Discomfort
Sticky wicket to be certain. Lots of possibles being brought into play. I know I'd be as concerned about something like this as I would enemy fire were I a deployed soldier.
In this particular situation though, I found this to be the key bit of info:
With that decision, the legal process, and I am admittedly ignorant of military legal actions, must be allowed to run its course. I assume that since he was convicted in a Phillipino court that the appeal will follow their process, as it should. Therefore, I conclude that these protestors are going about this the wrong way. The man in question is being held at the embassy, by consent of their elected leader, but his fate still rests with the court of their own nation. It is there that the protests and concerns should be directed.
In this particular situation though, I found this to be the key bit of info:
With that decision, the legal process, and I am admittedly ignorant of military legal actions, must be allowed to run its course. I assume that since he was convicted in a Phillipino court that the appeal will follow their process, as it should. Therefore, I conclude that these protestors are going about this the wrong way. The man in question is being held at the embassy, by consent of their elected leader, but his fate still rests with the court of their own nation. It is there that the protests and concerns should be directed.
markjs
Banned
From all available information I have been able to gather on the case, this piece of shit is guilty and hell and in my mind deserves a 40 year sentence in a Filipino prison. She had all the physical signs of rape, and she never denied she was drunk, but witnesses all corroborate her story. I hope he does spend 40 in prison over there. All too often Americans, servicemen especially, feel they can get away with breaking laws in foreign countries and they should and will be protected by our government and it's bullshit. They think that because they feel that another country's laws are too stiff or penalties too harsh that our government should rescue them, and in the case of servicemen all too often Uncle Sam does just that.
Bottom line is, if you don't want to deal with justice as another sovereign nation deems fit, don't be a fucking moron, don't commit crimes (no matter how silly the law seems to you), and when you get caught breaking their laws, you damn well deserve what's coming to you. The military has a long history of our servicemen disgracing their uniform and committing crimes and being protected from due process of law. This is just one article about the subject.
I agree with SnP, that the protesters are protesting the wrong way in the wrong place, but I think accountability is pretty piss poor for military personnel committing criminal acts especially in Asian countries. This is a part why the Philippine government has refused to renew leases of some American bases.
I am not one who is under the misconception that the whole world hates Americans, because a lot of the world does and a lot doesn't depending on their personal experience, but I do think it's hilarious when Americans wonder why some people in foreign nations hate us. It's just this kind of arrogance shown by Americans in their country that gives some of them legitimate reason to hate us. I am sure a lot of the people of the world hate us for other petty reasons such as jealousy and the like, but for Christ's sake these bastards refused to even answer the charges and his buddies who cheered him on were all acquitted in a Filipino court. The fact that those guys were acquitted alone is plenty reason for anger. What if it was a Filipino soldier and it was an American woman you knew? How would you feel?
I personally will applaud the US government if they allow him to serve 40 years in a Filipino prison, and wouldn't shed a tear if he didn't live through the experience, but I don't see it happening, and I sympathize with the protesters, no matter how misguided their efforts are.
Bottom line is, if you don't want to deal with justice as another sovereign nation deems fit, don't be a fucking moron, don't commit crimes (no matter how silly the law seems to you), and when you get caught breaking their laws, you damn well deserve what's coming to you. The military has a long history of our servicemen disgracing their uniform and committing crimes and being protected from due process of law. This is just one article about the subject.
I agree with SnP, that the protesters are protesting the wrong way in the wrong place, but I think accountability is pretty piss poor for military personnel committing criminal acts especially in Asian countries. This is a part why the Philippine government has refused to renew leases of some American bases.
I am not one who is under the misconception that the whole world hates Americans, because a lot of the world does and a lot doesn't depending on their personal experience, but I do think it's hilarious when Americans wonder why some people in foreign nations hate us. It's just this kind of arrogance shown by Americans in their country that gives some of them legitimate reason to hate us. I am sure a lot of the people of the world hate us for other petty reasons such as jealousy and the like, but for Christ's sake these bastards refused to even answer the charges and his buddies who cheered him on were all acquitted in a Filipino court. The fact that those guys were acquitted alone is plenty reason for anger. What if it was a Filipino soldier and it was an American woman you knew? How would you feel?
I personally will applaud the US government if they allow him to serve 40 years in a Filipino prison, and wouldn't shed a tear if he didn't live through the experience, but I don't see it happening, and I sympathize with the protesters, no matter how misguided their efforts are.
ResearchMonkey
Well-Known Member
Screw the Flips, bring him home let the USMilJus deal with it.
SouthernN'Proud
Southern Discomfort
I know nothing of the case, and don't care to learn. If he's guilty he oughta do his time same as anyone else. If it's trumped up BS by a foreign country then he deserves to walk. Like anyone else. Bottom line, no special treatment. I respect the uniform and those who wear it honorably. Those who choose not to can rot.
ResearchMonkey
Well-Known Member
As soon as the rest of the world can contribute as much as the United States does to the world, and mankind in general, I might give shat about what the flips (or you) think.
He's on US soil, I say... "come in and get him"
ResearchMonkey
Well-Known Member
Mark, what do think about Gitmo? awww poor terrorist?
Gato_Solo
Out-freaking-standing OTC member
Here's the deal. I am in a country with no SOFA (look it up). If I commit a crime, and I can make it back to the base before I'm caught, then I fall under US jurisdiction. If I'm caught by the locals, then I'm under their jurisdiction...and they believe in swift (harsh) justice. Know what that means? I keep my ass out of trouble when I go into town. I also mind my manners. I'm a guest, and I act appropriately.
markjs
Banned
I don't think anyone in their right mind thinks that more than a very few American "bad seeds", military or no commit crimes on foreign soil. The fact is though that there are plenty enough (as small, percentage wise, as that group may be), that there is plenty of reason for people in those countries to be righteously indignant about it.
The other fact is that yes, there are more US bases on foreign soil than any other nation. But regardless, if you steal something in an Arab country and they cut your hand off, I say good for them!
It may seem harsh to us in this country but in their culture what we do to punish the same crime is just as ridiculous in the opposite direction (leniency). But that arrogant attitude that we are Americans, we know best, we are right, and if he makes it back to base he will go unpunished by the standards of the nation in which he commits the crime, well if you have any logic you should be able to understand why these people are mad. Again simple logic should also tell someone, arrogant American or no, not to steal anything in an Arab country, or break any major law overseas if you ain't up for the potential consequences.
And Leslie I think its rather pathetic that you edit my comment about RM, which was rather innocuous and very much a fact in my opinion, but you leave his blatantly racist slurs intact. Generally I don't even bother to read the garbage he spews, but when he is throwing racist slurs about and being a fine example of why so many people worldwide feel the way they do about Americans I think it warrants a comment. Pathetic....!
The other fact is that yes, there are more US bases on foreign soil than any other nation. But regardless, if you steal something in an Arab country and they cut your hand off, I say good for them!
It may seem harsh to us in this country but in their culture what we do to punish the same crime is just as ridiculous in the opposite direction (leniency). But that arrogant attitude that we are Americans, we know best, we are right, and if he makes it back to base he will go unpunished by the standards of the nation in which he commits the crime, well if you have any logic you should be able to understand why these people are mad. Again simple logic should also tell someone, arrogant American or no, not to steal anything in an Arab country, or break any major law overseas if you ain't up for the potential consequences.
And Leslie I think its rather pathetic that you edit my comment about RM, which was rather innocuous and very much a fact in my opinion, but you leave his blatantly racist slurs intact. Generally I don't even bother to read the garbage he spews, but when he is throwing racist slurs about and being a fine example of why so many people worldwide feel the way they do about Americans I think it warrants a comment. Pathetic....!
Gato_Solo
Out-freaking-standing OTC member
Bottom line is this...if you're going to behave like an idiot, you're going to be treated like one. Quite simple, really.
markjs
Banned
Oh and another thing that is absolutely wrong with our system is that the US Military seems to treat rape like it's a misdemeanor.
Scores of examples can be found here....
And The military's record on rape of their female members by their own, and how it's handled internally has long been known to be rather pathetic....
So yeah, I can hear y'all gearing up your thoughts about how unpatriotic it is that I dare question anything the American Military does, because god knows we Americans are always right and I am just a military hating 'merica hating pinko commie f**, but the fact is, right is right, wrong is wrong, and the military is far from perfect and could definitely use improvement in this area.
I don't know where y'all come from, but I happen to think rape is a heinous crime, just about a notch behind murder and sometimes worse.
So go ahead and wave yer damn flags and pretend yer shit don't stink because you support the troops.
Fact is I am greatful to every soldier in Iraq for their service, I am just smart enough to realize I can feel that way even though I disagree with the decision to send and keep them there. Unfortunately a lot of American's minds are too small for that concept.
But at the same time, if any one of those soldiers commits heinous crimes overseas, I want them punished, harshly, because they reflect on us all.
Scores of examples can be found here....
And The military's record on rape of their female members by their own, and how it's handled internally has long been known to be rather pathetic....
So yeah, I can hear y'all gearing up your thoughts about how unpatriotic it is that I dare question anything the American Military does, because god knows we Americans are always right and I am just a military hating 'merica hating pinko commie f**, but the fact is, right is right, wrong is wrong, and the military is far from perfect and could definitely use improvement in this area.
I don't know where y'all come from, but I happen to think rape is a heinous crime, just about a notch behind murder and sometimes worse.
So go ahead and wave yer damn flags and pretend yer shit don't stink because you support the troops.
Fact is I am greatful to every soldier in Iraq for their service, I am just smart enough to realize I can feel that way even though I disagree with the decision to send and keep them there. Unfortunately a lot of American's minds are too small for that concept.
But at the same time, if any one of those soldiers commits heinous crimes overseas, I want them punished, harshly, because they reflect on us all.
ResearchMonkey
Well-Known Member
Fuck ya, we couldn't possibly give this woman justice, give him 40 years, give her 40 lashes. damn that sounds like whats needed here. unreasonable justice.
This is not a military issue. That's what you're missing. Don't blame the Army for one guys stupidity.
That's is guilt. or liberalism.
spike
New Member
paul_valaru
100% Pure Canadian Beef
He commited a crime on foreign soil he should pay the foreign price. I remember when the Canadian Military (well, some fuck-ups that where members of the Canadian Military) screwed up big time in Somalia, they should have been tried there.
ResearchMonkey
Well-Known Member
...and waterboarding is wrong?
...dope addicts, like both you me, could be killed in MANY places (I would certainly want the US to snatch me up and give me US prison)
OK jeebus - Leslie, back that up.
After my mothers death ('68) I was raised by a legal Mexican nanny for 4 years and black woman for the next 12 years, these women WERE my mothers.
My own mother was NOT a US citizen.
I married a woman named Romero, my kids speak spanish as a 2nd,
So please show me my "Blantant Racism".
MEE thinks your Progressive Liberal hate of the military generates such whismical creations of fantasy.
