Socialized healthcare care in action.

spike said:
ZOMG! So if I can find an example of someone from the US going to another country for healthcare then you're wrong? That's an easy setup.
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Seek on. Even the prescriptions in Canada will be going up now that the CAD is at par with the USD.

People go to other countries all of the time but it is not because it is better. They go there because it is CHEAPER. They are merely taking advantage of the monetary exchange rates; and that's the part you simply don't get.

NONE of them are going to other countries because there are no facilities in the U.S. they can go to which can fulfill their needs.
 
spike said:
On the other hand you could provide some statistics showing one system working better than another.

Shit. I already did that.
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No. You gave us a link to a webpage that did not have the study posted nor a link to get to it.
 
chcr said:
Not working particularly well is hardly the same as "failed." Do you work for CNN or Fox News or something?
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No I don't. I do, however, pay attention to the sources which show the system there failing; including those in Canada.

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/features/health_system/index.html

Pregnant women kept waiting

Ciaran Dickson , Leader-Post
Published: Saturday, October 06, 2007
Long wait times are keeping some pregnant women from pushing in Regina.

Some women who require having labour induced are being told to wait in line as the Regina Mother Baby Unit struggles to keep up with demand. Women who require labour-inducing measures are forced to wait by the phone for a call telling them they are the next to be called. As they hold tight and continue to grow, they do so with uncertainty as when the call will come.
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'I've got cancer and you're not helping any'

Craig Pearson , The Windsor Star
Published: Thursday, September 27, 2007
It might have been enough to make Premier Dalton McGuinty feel sick.

During a Liberal campaign stop at The Ottawa Hospital Regional Cancer Centre yesterday, with a phalanx of media in tow, the smiling premier slowed to chat with a patient and shake his hand.

However, Mike Brady, 63, did not accept Mr. McGuinty's hand.

"I've got cancer," Mr. Brady deadpanned. "And you're not helping any."

"That's not true," Mr. McGuinty said as he continued walking.
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Health act on life support, needs a revamp: CMA boss

Sarah Mcginnis , The Calgary Herald, With files from CanWest News Service
Published: 9/15/2007
CALGARY - Canada's health law is outdated and failing, and if universal health care is to survive, the Canada Health Act needs an overhaul, says the new Canadian Medical Association president, Dr. Brian Day.

Though Dr. Day is best known for co-founding the private Cambie Surgery Centre in Vancouver, he said he isn't out to convert medicare into a U.S.-style private system.

"The (Canada Health Act) is based on principles that are nearly 45 years old -- at a time when there were no MRIs, no CT scans and scarcely any hip replacements. Things have changed a lot and it's about time we looked at changing it," Dr. Day said yesterday.

One of the biggest problems in the current system is the lengthy wait times -- causing patients' conditions to deteriorate and costing the system more in the long run, said Dr. Day.

Some patients are no longer willing to wait indefinitely for treatment and have started taking provincial governments to court for the right to purchase medical insurance to cover private medical treatments.
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Remember when they reduced the cigarette tax by one half overnight? That was because there is a major Indian reservation which spans the U.S. Canadian border. Cigarettes were coming across untaxed because the taxes there were so high. Those taxes were also a major funding source for the healthcare system. By lowering the taxes, they actually increased the revenue because the black market cigarettes dried up.
 
jimpeel said:
NONE of them are going to other countries because there are no facilities in the U.S. they can go to which can fulfill their needs.
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I don't suppose you have any evidence for your opinion?

The U.S. health system is the most expensive in the world, but comparative analyses consistently show the United States underperforms relative to other countries on most dimensions of performance.
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Oops. Study here:

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/publications_show.htm?doc_id=482678
 
NOt working particularly well are usually steps on the road to failure. The more of one the more likely the other.
 
jimpeel said:
You mean like those imaginary socialists in France, Britain, Denmark, Canada, et al?
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yeah, you mean the ones whose currencies are currently more valuable than the US dollar?

lookie here, i'm opposed to socialized medicine as well. because my health care is great. now, i'm not dumb enough to think that my care would be great if i were a poor sonofabitch. yep, i'm perfectly happy where i'm at. and i don't wanna pay for your ass' health care.

but you've made this into a bad cartoon.

"post examples of failures in canada and europe."

pfeeeew.

are you gathering evidence to support your senatorial campaign?

nah. yer puking pabulum.

just like farrakhan when he talks about race. now, sure, jim crow laws were real. and to this day there are some real examples of racism. but farrakhan is so 'tribalist' and 'looking for any angle' that's he's helped turn what was/is a real concern into the muppet show, ridiculous and utterly transparent for exactly what it is.

who's gonna play you in the movie? i think dean cain is available...
 
spike said:
I don't suppose you have any evidence for your opinion?
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You mean "Can you prove the negative?" There are ample facilities here in the United States which can serve the needs of everyone. If there weren't, then how could we take in those who come here from abroad? Hmmm?

There are no glaring headlines about facility shortages in the U.S. as one can find in the foreign press on nearly a daily basis.

http://refdesk.com/europe.html#uk

Go out and read the Times of London, the Telegraph, the Manchester Guardian.

http://refdesk.com/noamer.html#canada

Read Canada.com, the Calgary Sun, Canoe.

Here is a source to every web published paper on Earth.

http://refdesk.com/paper.html

See what the press in those countries say about the health care there. They are the ones living the dream, right?

Our doctors, like Doctors Without Borders, go to other countries to bring them what we already have. Our newspapers bulge with healthcare employment opportunities.

In the meantime, healthcare workers in other countries are leaving the profession.
 
so, once again I am forc ed to ask spike...

if it sucks so bad to be in America, why not move away? you provide "proof" o dwhata tinpot backalley dictatorial society we are...so go away.
 
2minkey said:
yeah, you mean the ones whose currencies are currently more valuable than the US dollar?

lookie here, i'm opposed to socialized medicine as well. because my health care is great. now, i'm not dumb enough to think that my care would be great if i were a poor sonofabitch. yep, i'm perfectly happy where i'm at. and i don't wanna pay for your ass' health care.

but you've made this into a bad cartoon.

"post examples of failures in canada and europe."

pfeeeew.

are you gathering evidence to support your senatorial campaign?

nah. yer puking pabulum.

just like farrakhan when he talks about race. now, sure, jim crow laws were real. and to this day there are some real examples of racism. but farrakhan is so 'tribalist' and 'looking for any angle' that's he's helped turn what was/is a real concern into the muppet show, ridiculous and utterly transparent for exactly what it is.

who's gonna play you in the movie? i think dean cain is available...
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:shrug: :shrug: :shrug:

That is one heluva disjointed post. It quotes me but then goes off on some wild tangent about Farrakhan.

I'm confused. Are you agreeing with me or not agreeing with me?
 
Gonz said:
so, once again I am forc ed to ask spike...

if it sucks so bad to be in America, why not move away? you provide "proof" o dwhata tinpot backalley dictatorial society we are...so go away.
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The proof was that our healthcare system is lagging behind not anything about "tinpot backalley dictatorial". What were you reading?

If you're not interested in improving your country why don't you go away.
 
jimpeel said:
See what the press in those countries say about the health care there. They are the ones living the dream, right?
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You link to publications but you couldn't find a single thing to support your words? :laugh:

the United States underperforms relative to other countries on most dimensions of performance.
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NO facts to the contrary?
 
jimpeel said:
No I don't. I do, however, pay attention to the sources which show the system there failing; including those in Canada.
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"Failing" is also not the same thing as "failed." It's okay though, I fully understand this need to overstate virtually everything in self-righteous breast-beating. It's been escalating for years. It actually became ludicrous about ten or twelve years ago. I just point it out from time to time for my own personal amusement. It's not really wrong if you believe it strongly enough, is it?
 
chcr said:
"Failing" is also not the same thing as "failed." It's okay though, I fully understand this need to overstate virtually everything in self-righteous breast-beating. It's been escalating for years. It actually became ludicrous about ten or twelve years ago. I just point it out from time to time for my own personal amusement. It's not really wrong if you believe it strongly enough, is it?
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The breast-beating *is* getting annoying, isn't it? Wanna go behind the bushes and... :leghump: ?

;)
 
It's been my experince that ANYONE can get healthcare.

Having a combined 17 years of professional services (between my wife and I) to some really really poor/homeless/generally messed up people. I have yet to see anyone of thousands not get treated, providing they folow thru on processes required to continue the treatment. - It always boils down effort.

Being it Gov't werk, I've regularly seen $20k/mo in services being spent to give away $835/mo.
 
BeardofPants said:
The breast-beating *is* getting annoying, isn't it? Wanna go behind the bushes and... :leghump: ?

;)
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My lovely wife has a small problem with me shagging random attractive young women (whoda thunk it), otherwise I'd be there in a heartbeat.
 
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