Supreme Court hears privacy case
- Thread starter A.B.Normal
- Start date
Squiggy
ThunderDick
You were caught breaking a law if you ran a red light. The warrants would be eminent disclosure at that point. If you've done nothing wrong or suspicious, the officers would have to recognize you as a person wanted on warrats and if that were the case, they wouldn't need your ID. 
freako104
Well-Known Member
did what? there is nothing there Gonz. three guys walking is three guys walking. maybe theyre going to a store or the mall or a movie. it doesnt matter. now if they are trespassing or a crime has been reported and they were in the vicinity of it at the time of said crime...
freako104
Well-Known Member
Ive had the picture Gonz. now as for your second scenario, once again it is not much but there is something that MAY connect them(they are in the vicinity. the question is what they are doing there?) now we can ask what they are doing there. but again too early to tell. that is what investigations are for. If you want them guilty in court then it is guilty beyond reasonable doubt
freako104
Well-Known Member
my posts may have been vague but even the CJ classes ive had and are in now have it that way. there are grey areas as well as knowing exactly whats going on. that said, I said what I did since it is what I learned in class. that we need probable cause before any legal action would be taken by anyone. we need it before they can be in the system.
Squiggy
ThunderDick
hmmm...this is more interesting than I thought.Film of the arrest. http://papersplease.org/hiibel/video.html
The story...
Supreme Court to Decide Mandatory ID Case
Mon Mar 22, 6:06 PM
By GINA HOLLAND, Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON - Do you have to tell the police your name? Depending on how the Supreme Court rules, the answer could be the difference between arrest and freedom.
The justices heard arguments Monday in a first-of-its kind case that asks whether people can be punished for refusing to identify themselves.
The court took up the appeal of a Nevada cattle rancher who was arrested after he told a deputy that he had done nothing wrong and didn't have to reveal his name or show an ID during an encounter on a rural road four years ago.
Larry "Dudley" Hiibel, 59, was prosecuted, based on his silence, and finds himself at the center of a major privacy rights battle.
"I would do it all over again," Hiibel, dressed in cowboy hat, boots and a bolo tie, said outside the court. "That's one of our fundamental rights as American citizens, to remain silent."
The case will clarify police powers in the post-Sept. 11 era, determining if officials can demand to see identification whenever they deem it necessary.
Nevada senior deputy attorney general Conrad Hafen told justices that "identifying yourself is a neutral act" that helps police in their investigations and doesn't _ by itself _ incriminate anyone.
But if that is allowed, several justices asked, what will be next? A fingerprint? Telephone number? E-mail address? What about a national identification card?
"The government could require name tags, color codes," Hiibel's lawyer, Robert Dolan, told the court.
At the heart of the case is an intersection of the Fourth Amendment, which protects people from unreasonable searches, and the Fifth Amendment right to remain silent. Hiibel claims both of those rights were violated.
Justice Antonin Scalia, however, expressed doubts. He said officers faced with suspicious people need authority to get the facts.
"I cannot imagine any responsible citizen would have objected to giving the name," Scalia said.
Justices are revisiting their 1968 decision that said police may briefly detain someone on reasonable suspicion of wrongdoing, without the stronger standard of probable cause, to get more information. Nevada argues that during such brief detentions, known as Terry stops after the 1968 ruling, people should be required to answer questions about their identities.
Justice Sandra Day O'Connor pointed out the court never has given police the authority to demand someone's identification, without probable cause they have done something wrong. But she also acknowledged police might want to run someone's name through computers to check for a criminal history.
The encounter in this case, which was videotaped, shows Hiibel by a pickup truck parked off a road near Winnemucca, Nev., on May 21, 2000.
An officer, called to the scene because of a complaint about arguing between Hiibel and his daughter in the truck, asked Hiibel 11 times for his identification or his name.
Hiibel refused, at one point saying, "If you've got something take me to jail" and "I don't want to talk. I've done nothing. I've broken no laws."
Hiibel never acted in a threatening manner and cooperated when handcuffed. His daughter, a teenager at the time, was thrown to the ground and arrested when she protested his arrest, the video shows. She was not convicted of any crime.
Hiibel was convicted of a misdemeanor charge of resisting arrest. He was fined $250.
Nevada is supported by the Bush administration and two criminal justice groups. Organizations backing Hiibel include the American Civil Liberties Union, the Cato Institute, privacy groups and advocates for the homeless.
Marc Rotenberg, president of the Electronic Privacy Information Center, said if Hiibel loses, the government will be free to use its extensive data bases to keep tabs on people.
"A name is now no longer a simple identifier; it is the key to a vast, cross-referenced system of public and private databases, which lay bare the most intimate features of an individual's life," Rotenberg told the court in a filing.
The case is Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of the state of Nevada, 03-5554.
Mirlyn
Well-Known Member
This one really has me wondering since I first heard of it....I'm really not sure which side I stand on, but I'd be inclined to say no to requiring IDs.
As others have said, the term suspect is extremely subjective. I was pulled over once for being suspect in a burglary in a nearby area. I have a scanner in my car, does that makes me a suspect? What about if I was a passenger at the time...
Things to think about...
As others have said, the term suspect is extremely subjective. I was pulled over once for being suspect in a burglary in a nearby area. I have a scanner in my car, does that makes me a suspect? What about if I was a passenger at the time...
Things to think about...
