Taxi Driver

[Ardsgaine]

Body count doesn't make a movie. It was obvious that I am merely saying that a movie doesn't have to have a happy ending to be a good film.

Try again.

You said before:

Everyone died...everyone (except I still give Mr. Pink a .03% chance) and it's good that way.

And you weren't just saying that a movie doesn't have to have a happy ending to be a good film, you were saying that having a happy ending makes it a piece of fluff.

What Janimal has been trying to explain is that the ending doesn't have to be unequivocally happy, but it does have to have a good point to it. A movie like Taxi Driver that makes a hero out of a psycho, or one like Cape Fear that turns the hero into a bastard, seeks to undermine positive values. The goal is to make the viewer walk away with the impression that life sucks, that there is nothing good or important in the world that we should value.

The hero of the movie can die in such a way that we walk out thinking that he was a good person who lived his best, and died in pursuit of something important. It can still inspire us. Note that in Taxi Driver the "hero" lives. He even rescues the girl, and saves her from a life of prostitution. I'm not inspired by it, though, because he's an ignorant, sociopathic bastard who only ended up being a hero by the merest coincidence.

Also, in Cape Fear we have a happy ending. The bad guy is killed, and the family is rescued. There was no one in the movie that we could really root for, though, except in the way that you wouldn't wish some things on anyone. The biggest problem with the movie, though, was its purely gratuitous portrayal of violence-- particularly the rape scene. It was one of the sickest most perverse movies I've ever seen in my life. If we hadn't been there with another couple, we would have gotten up and walked out. The only other movie that's made me that ill was Star 80 (I didn't go see Silence of the Lambs). Some things don't belong on film, they don't deserve that kind of attention or glorification.

 

[flavio]

If I liked Westerns and judged all movies by "it wasn't a Western, so it sucked" it would have as much relevance as your criteria.

Your preference for genre or subject matter has nothing to do with what makes good film.

 

[Ardsgaine]

If I liked Westerns and judged all movies by "it wasn't a Western, so it sucked" it would have as much relevance as your criteria.

Your preference for genre or subject matter has nothing to do with what makes good film.

This has nothing to do with genres. Any genre can be presented in a nihilistic manner. As for subject matter, the original Cape Fear dealt with the exact same subject as the newer version. The original was a great movie, the new one sucked. It's how the subject matter was presented that made the difference. You're grasping at straws. Instead of addressing the specific criticisms of these movies that Janimal and I have made, you're trying to fit us into some caricature that you can then dismiss.

 

[flavio]

The subjects in Cape Fear and taxi driver were flawed people. No sparkling white heroes. Therefore since the good guy in Cape Fear had his own flaws or the Taxi Driver had some mental issues you dismiss these as bad film.

Of course acting, directing or writing has no merit in your judgement only that they weren't sparkling white.

By your screwed up criteria many of the top 250 movies would not fare so well.

10. Memento (sorry, no hero to "inpire" you in this one...better go to church instead)
13. One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (Oh no! Psychos depicted as decent people!)
21. American Beauty (Holy crap...ends on a bad note)

It's obvious your rating movies on your own incredibly biased preferences instead of quality....just as if they "aren't Westerns".

 

[Ardsgaine]

The subjects in Cape Fear and taxi driver were flawed people. No sparkling white heroes. Therefore since the good guy in Cape Fear had his own flaws or the Taxi Driver had some mental issues you dismiss these as bad film.

You're confusing the subject matter of the movie with its theme, or point. Yes, I believe that a movie that makes life seem pointless is bad. I guess you could say that that's what my whole argument boils down to. I consider such a movie to be a negative emotional experience, hence, not worth watching.

Of course acting, directing or writing has no merit in your judgement only that they weren't sparkling white.

I never said that the movies weren't well-directed, well-acted or well-written. The people who made them are superbly talented, but that just makes it that much more perverse. Why devote so much talent to make such a negative statement about heroism or the value of life?

By your screwed up criteria many of the top 250 movies would not fare so well.

Probably not. Because I don't judge a work of art by the technical execution alone, I judge it by the statement it is attempting to make. If the artwork does not elevate me, if it doesn't lift up my spirit or demonstrate some philosophical truth about life, then I have no use for it. All the technical execution that went into it might as well have been flushed down a toilet, as far as I'm concerned.

10. Memento (sorry, no hero to "inpire" you in this one...better go to church instead)

I've never seen it, and I don't attend church. I'm an atheist.

13. One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (Oh no! Psychos depicted as decent people!)

I think you may have missed the point of that one. It wasn't nihilistic.

21. American Beauty (Holy crap...ends on a bad note)

Yes it did, and there was no good reason that I could see for it to end that way. Up until the end it wasn't a bad movie.

biased

You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means...

 

[flavio]

Main Entry: 4bias
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): bi·ased or bi·assed; bi·as·ing or bi·as·sing
Date: circa 1628
1 : to give a settled and often prejudiced outlook to

As in "you are biased against movies that don't 'lift you up' and your film evaluations are equivalent to someone who only likes Westerns. You have a preference for movies with a certain type of theme but are using your preferences as if they have some bearing on quality.