The Life-and-Death Cost of Gun Control

spike said:
Many thing could have prevented 9-11, so singling out one scenario and then calling it a the cause doesn't work.
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"Summary: Contrary to the claim by the 9/11 commission chairman, the failure to prevent 9/11 was not "a failure of imagination." It was a failure of cognition.

For decades prior to 9/11, terrorist attacks against Americans were perpetrated without any noticeable response from the U.S. government. The first attack on the World Trade Center, for example, occurred back in 1993--and it was dealt with as a mere criminal matter.

The reason that the United States was taken by surprise was not a lack of imagination, but a lack of honesty in facing the facts--and a lack of courage to act against these obvious threats."
 
Cerise said:
For decades prior to 9/11, terrorist attacks against Americans were perpetrated without any noticeable response from the U.S. government. The first attack on the World Trade Center, for example, occurred back in 1993--and it was dealt with as a mere criminal matter.

The reason that the United States was taken by surprise was not a lack of imagination, but a lack of honesty in facing the facts--and a lack of courage to act against these obvious threats."
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Come now Cerise. Surely you know that these people aren't a threat to us. We have enough people, a few are expendable.
 
Cerise said:
"Summary: Contrary to the claim by the 9/11 commission chairman, the failure to prevent 9/11 was not "a failure of imagination." It was a failure of cognition.

For decades prior to 9/11, terrorist attacks against Americans were perpetrated without any noticeable response from the U.S. government. The first attack on the World Trade Center, for example, occurred back in 1993--and it was dealt with as a mere criminal matter.

The reason that the United States was taken by surprise was not a lack of imagination, but a lack of honesty in facing the facts--and a lack of courage to act against these obvious threats."
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Well shit, if some nutball writer for the Ayn Rand Institute says so it must be true. :laugh:
 
JTP said:
Hey, I like my firearms, and don't want them regulated by the Gov, but let's inject a little realism here. If you are outside of your home and someone's out to mug you with a gun, they are going to have the drop on you. Not only that, but you are likely to be outnumbered as well. If they are serious (and we can assume they are, if they're armed), and you make a grab for your piece, they are going to shoot you. No criminal is going to give you a "fair chance" to draw Old Western Movie style with them. If you go around armed, you're either going to get shot, or the thug(s) will take your weapon in addition to your money, watch, et cetera. The best place honest citizens can keep their weapons is at home-for home defense-where you have an advantage because you're in familiar surroundings. Hopefully, you will be alerted to a break-in and able to get your weapon before they get in, but even that is iffy. I've been mugged out in public twice and glad I wasn't armed, because I'd either have been dead or relieved of a valuable handgun in both situations. Just being realistic.
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*passes some Karma*
 
spike said:
Well shit, if some nutball writer for the Ayn Rand Institute says so it must be true. :laugh:
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As the commission itself reported, "The 9/11 attacks were a shock, but they should not have come as a surprise."
 
Cerise said:
As the commission itself reported, "The 9/11 attacks were a shock, but they should not have come as a surprise."
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absolutely. if there had been a deeper and more nuanced understanding of the middle east before 9/11 things may have been different. in iraq as well too. somebody with half a brain mighta anticipated just a few of the things that didn't exactly go right after "mission accomplished" was so naively declared by chief nincompoop.
 
2minkey said:
if there had been a deeper and more nuanced understanding of the middle east before 9/11 things may have been different.
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After nearly 25 years of nickel & dime attacks, they finally got a big score. People saw it & people wanted it stopped but far too many thought it was a legal matter instead of a national securoty issue. Instead of stopping an enemy, we let the lawyers look into it. Much to the amusement of the enemy.
 
I'm thinking about buy one or six. It's been awhile...is the government still interfering with gun purchases?
 
at this very moment, no, but sales on a lot of things have gone wacko due to speculation about obama having wacky gun grabbing plans. if you need any suggestions, lemme know. i only have one these days. one of these.
 
Gonz said:
I'm thinking about buy one or six. It's been awhile...is the government still interfering with gun purchases?
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You still have to got through the NICS background check that the NRA so obligingly compromised us into.
 
Every year several major cities have these firearm "buy back" programs. Most of the items turned in are by people who don't know what to do with them.

A firearms group staked out one of these "buy backs" and did free appraisals of firearms people were bringing in. Several of the firearms were worth hundreds of dollars on the legitimate firearms market. One woman was going to turn in a Charles Daly over and under shotgun for a $50 gift certificate until the appraiser told her that the firearm was worth about $2,000 retail; and that any gun store would buy it for $1,500 - $1,800. Many of the people bringing the firearms to the "buy back" were older widows who didn't know what to do with their husband's firearms after he died.

The main problem with these "buy backs" is that they take in all firearms "no questions asked" and this makes a perfect place for criminals to ditch their crime guns -- no questions asked.

They also cheat people out of their property; but, what the hell, it is, after all, for the children.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,463172,00.html

Gifts for Guns Program Brings in Record Weapon Haul

Sunday, December 07, 2008

LOS ANGELES — A program to exchange guns for gifts has brought in a record number of weapons this year as residents hit hard by the economy look under the bed and in closets to find items to trade for groceries.

The annual Gifts for Guns program wound down Sunday in Compton, a working class city south of Los Angeles that has long struggled with gun and gang violence. In a program similar to ones in New York and San Francisco, the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department allows residents to anonymously relinquish firearms in return for $100 gift cards for Ralphs supermarkets, Target department stores or Best Buy electronics stores.

Turning in assault rifles yields double that amount.

In years past, Target and Best Buy were the cards of choice, with residents wanting presents for the holidays.

This year, most asked for the supermarket cards, said sheriff's Sgt. Byron Woods.

"People just don't have the money to buy the food these days," he said.

Deputies expected to collect about 1,000 weapons this year. Authorities said 590 guns and two hand grenades were handed in during the last weekend in November, more than the total collected in any year and eclipsing last year's 387 guns.

Woods said most of the residents who turned in weapons were "family people."

"One guy said he had just got laid off from his job," Woods said. "He turned in five guns and said it would really help him to put food on the family's table."

Gun owners dropped their weapons off at a local grocery store parking lot. Deputies checked the weapons to see if they had been used in crimes, then destroyed them.

The annual drive started in 2005 after a spike in killings, though the murder rate had since dropped.

One man brought in a Soviet-era semiautomatic carbine.

"If that got into the wrong hands of gangbangers, they could kill several people within minutes," Woods said. "Our biggest fear is a house getting burglarized and these guns getting taken."

The drive also has yielded antique weapons.

Gift cards for the guns exchange were paid mostly by Los Angeles County, but the three companies involved and the city of Compton, which contracts the county for police protection, also donated funds.
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By the by ...

Several years ago the Connecticut gun "buy-back" (always put that term in quotes, folks) was suspended indefinitely after a man went to a local sporting goods store and bought 40 SKS rifles on sale for $70. He then turned them all in for the $100 "reward" being offered for "assault weapons". Total take for two hour's work? $1200!

In another city they were having a "buy-back" and two punks turned in a non-working sawed-off shotgun. With the money they got from the cops, they then approached another person who was there to turn in a handgun. They bought the gun from this guy and then went out and committed a murder with it during the course of a robbery.

In Australia the cops were investigated because in excess of 23,000 firearms were missing plus much of the "buy-back" money.

Of course, there are always the police profiteers ...

Gun Buy-Back Backfires When Officers Cash In

By MIKE CLAFFEY
Daily News Staff Writer

The gun buy-back program to get illegal weapons off the streets had to be altered yesterday after a stampede of court officers tried to cash in.

Brooklyn District Attorney Charles Hynes ordered changes in the initiative when he found out that court officers — some of them in uniform — were handing in their old .38-caliber service revolvers.

Because the program had pulled in only about 200 guns since the one-month window began July 1, Hynes upped the reward on Monday from $100 to $250 per gun.

"We had a surge last night of about 100 guns and they all seem to be .38 service revolvers," said a source in the prosecutor's office.

One court officer collected $1,500 by turning in six guns.

"This is a program with good intentions to get illegal guns off the street and shouldn't be bastardized by people looking for a quick buck," said Hynes' spokesman, Kevin Davitt.

"We're going to be contacting those people who abused the program and ask for our money back," Davitt said.

But a spokesman for the court system, David Bookstaver, said it is not clear that the officers can be forced to do that.

"District Attorney Hynes has indicated that this is really not in the spirit of what the program was designed for," Bookstaver said.

But he added that court officials "have no authority" to tell the officers to give the money back.

He said, however, that word was going out yesterday that court officers can no longer participate.

Some court officers in Brooklyn were upset that Hynes had forbidden them from participating in the buy-back offer. The officers were allowed to keep their revolvers after they were issued 9-mm. semiautomatics last year.

"I have the flyer right here and it says, 'Any working handgun, sawed-off shotgun or assault rifle. No questions asked.'" said Bob Patelli a Senior Court Officers Association delegate at Brooklyn Supreme Court.

"If the DA sees fit to discontinue the program, fine. But he's bound legally to pay for the guns he's already taken."

Patelli added that the program was achieving its goal of getting extra guns out of circulation.

"It gets the gun off the street instead of leaving it in a closet where children or a burglar could find them," he said.

Last year, 659 firearms were turned in for $100 each. The money comes from drug forfeiture funds, Davitt said.

"We thought that perhaps $100 was not meeting the value that some people place on these weapons," he said.

To be turned in, guns must be wrapped in brown paper and can be taken to any Brooklyn precinct house. If the gun is deemed operable, the desk officer is supposed to give the person a pink voucher that can be redeemed at the district attorney's office at 350 Jay St.
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Watching the news this morning it said that a gas station clerk took the gun right out of the robbers hands and made him leave the store.

Link
 
jimpeel said:
By the by ...

Several years ago the Connecticut gun "buy-back" (always put that term in quotes, folks) was suspended indefinitely after a man went to a local sporting goods store and bought 40 SKS rifles on sale for $70. He then turned them all in for the $100 "reward" being offered for "assault weapons". Total take for two hour's work? $1200!
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Are you trying to make some sort of illogical generalization from a couple instances again? This is kinda turning into your signature move.

Gun buy back programs often work out very well.
 
spike said:
Are you trying to make some sort of illogical generalization from a couple instances again? This is kinda turning into your signature move.
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turning into????

dude, this has been jimmystyle pretty much since he got here.
 
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