The things that show us how little we know & infer how much time we have to ponder silliness.
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MrBishop
Well-Known Member
Scientific discovery and mechanics is accelerating at the speed of imagination. We'd better hurry up though, with our closest planet-ful neighbour being 90 LY away.chcr said:
Actually - its not proven that we can't go faster than light...several things do. We just can't accelerate TO the speed of light.
Winky
Well-Known Member
Ever the pissy-mist eh Chiccy?
By the very fact that we have the consciousness to ask these questions,
means indeed we shall answer them.
Once most of the questions on that list are answered
there will be no need for ghosts, goblins or deities.
The thing is, we may indeed have to 'evolve' as humans
before we have the abilities to obtain the knowledge to answer those questions.
I have always imagined if an extra terrestrial bopped on down onto the White House
lawn and tried to describe unified field theory, it wouldn’t be much unlike
trying to describe calculus to you dog.
So Chicka,
would we have to have evolved into non-corporeal beings to travel thousands
of light-years in an instant?
By the very fact that we have the consciousness to ask these questions,
means indeed we shall answer them.
Once most of the questions on that list are answered
there will be no need for ghosts, goblins or deities.
The thing is, we may indeed have to 'evolve' as humans
before we have the abilities to obtain the knowledge to answer those questions.
I have always imagined if an extra terrestrial bopped on down onto the White House
lawn and tried to describe unified field theory, it wouldn’t be much unlike
trying to describe calculus to you dog.
So Chicka,
would we have to have evolved into non-corporeal beings to travel thousands
of light-years in an instant?
chcr
Too cute for words
Winky said:
Sure we'll answer them, Wink. I'm just afraid that the answer to that one is no. No credible evidence that we've ever been visited or even contacted. Of course space is big, maybe they haven't found us yet.
What makes you think that non-corporeal (that means made solely of energy, BTW) would be able to travel faster than light? Energy can't (once again, as far as we know now). React to what the post says rather than what you think it says, huh?
Oh, there are no such thing as ghosts, goblins or deities. I had though you knew this.
Winky
Well-Known Member
I may dear friend am not constrained by:
"what the post sez".
Nah dood not the propagation of electromagnetic radiation
but sending yer 'soul' to another location in the space-time continuum heh heh
Just as thinking the earth was the freakin' center of the cosmos
it is brilliant arrogance to ponder that in the so far seen Universe
(ya know Hubble's 15 billion light years of sight)
that man is the ONLY sentient life form.
so Chicka-pet, why can't stuff arrive at it's destination
before it leaves it's point of origin, if it isn’t traveling through normal space time?
"what the post sez".
Nah dood not the propagation of electromagnetic radiation
but sending yer 'soul' to another location in the space-time continuum heh heh
Just as thinking the earth was the freakin' center of the cosmos
it is brilliant arrogance to ponder that in the so far seen Universe
(ya know Hubble's 15 billion light years of sight)
that man is the ONLY sentient life form.
so Chicka-pet, why can't stuff arrive at it's destination
before it leaves it's point of origin, if it isn’t traveling through normal space time?
chcr
Too cute for words
Do you have credible evidence that anything exists outside normal space-time? I completely fail to understand it, but you're hardly alone in the belief that when we find answers to some of these questions they will be the answers you are hoping for, that's all.
What if we find that there is nothing outside normal space-time and that the speed of light is the ultimate speed limit? I think we will find the answers, I just don't think stuff that Gene Roddenberry (or anyone else) imagined necessarily has anything to do with said answers. Don't get me wrong, I love science fiction. Far and away my favorite genre, but it's fiction. Expecting it to have any bearing on reality is like not liking Bob DeNiro because he played a bad man in Cape Fear.
What if we find that there is nothing outside normal space-time and that the speed of light is the ultimate speed limit? I think we will find the answers, I just don't think stuff that Gene Roddenberry (or anyone else) imagined necessarily has anything to do with said answers. Don't get me wrong, I love science fiction. Far and away my favorite genre, but it's fiction. Expecting it to have any bearing on reality is like not liking Bob DeNiro because he played a bad man in Cape Fear.
Evidently because Q hasn't fucked with it yet.
Winky
Well-Known Member
Hey Dood I ain't gotta clue!
That's just it we don't know, yet.
So if space-time is indeed infinite
and there isn't anything 'outside'
of it and the absolute speed limit is
299,792.458 kilometers per second
then fine I'm sure we can have a real
funtime nevertheless.
Then again:
C'Mon you craggy old codger!
One hundred years ago all the things we take for granted today would have seemed like science fiction or the work of the Devil.
500 to a thousand years from now danged near anything might be possible. We might even have answered most if not all of those questions on the list Hell we might even BE Q by then Heh heh heh.
That's just it we don't know, yet.
So if space-time is indeed infinite
and there isn't anything 'outside'
of it and the absolute speed limit is
299,792.458 kilometers per second
then fine I'm sure we can have a real
funtime nevertheless.
Then again:
C'Mon you craggy old codger!
One hundred years ago all the things we take for granted today would have seemed like science fiction or the work of the Devil.
500 to a thousand years from now danged near anything might be possible. We might even have answered most if not all of those questions on the list Hell we might even BE Q by then Heh heh heh.
MrBishop
Well-Known Member
Imagine how fast light 'could' go if it didn't have to stop and wave.Winky said:Hey Dood I ain't gotta clue!
That's just it we don't know, yet.
So if space-time is indeed infinite
and there isn't anything 'outside'
of it and the absolute speed limit is
299,792.458 kilometers per second
then fine I'm sure we can have a real
funtime nevertheless.
Then again:
C'Mon you craggy old codger!
One hundred years ago all the things we take for granted today would have seemed like science fiction or the work of the Devil.
500 to a thousand years from now danged near anything might be possible. We might even have answered most if not all of those questions on the list Hell we might even BE Q by then Heh heh heh.
I don't know about you, Winky...but that last statement scares the crap outta me.
chcr
Too cute for words
Think how much fun it'd be to fuck with Picard though. You recognized that he only did it for fun, right?
Wink, I'm not arguing with you. I just find that the faith in all of these solutions not much different from a faith in the supernatural. I'm not really a pessimist, I'm just not particularly an optomist either. The answer will be the answer regardless of what we want or expect. I hope we do find a way around the speed of light limit because if we don't interstellar travel is going to be a one way trip.
Wink, I'm not arguing with you. I just find that the faith in all of these solutions not much different from a faith in the supernatural. I'm not really a pessimist, I'm just not particularly an optomist either. The answer will be the answer regardless of what we want or expect. I hope we do find a way around the speed of light limit because if we don't interstellar travel is going to be a one way trip.
Winky
Well-Known Member
Q was great!
He messed with Picard like Krazy!!!
No prime directive for Gods huh?
Flinging the Enterprise 7,000 light years
putting them nose to nose with the Borg.
Just for fun!
Hell Yeah it would be fun to be God!
Sadly enough I'd think an advanced space faring
civilization would find the human race only a minor curiosity.
As it turns out there are many far more interesting species out there
to mess with! heh
What would be first on your list of things to do
if you could be Q for a day?
He messed with Picard like Krazy!!!
No prime directive for Gods huh?
Flinging the Enterprise 7,000 light years
putting them nose to nose with the Borg.
Just for fun!
Hell Yeah it would be fun to be God!
Sadly enough I'd think an advanced space faring
civilization would find the human race only a minor curiosity.
As it turns out there are many far more interesting species out there
to mess with! heh
What would be first on your list of things to do
if you could be Q for a day?
chcr
Too cute for words
Just not in this universe.
Sorry, quantum theory allows for the possibility but that's as far as it goes so far. No such have been proven to exist.
Well, that's substantially correct, but do you understand why? In relativity equations, mass becomes infinite at the speed of light. How do you continue to accelerate infinite mass? This is why you need "hyperspace" or "warp-drive."
MrBishop
Well-Known Member
Its the part of the theory of relativity which people often misunderstand.chcr said:
Here's a nice theorum for you. Light curves because of gravity, light slows because the medium through which it passes. If a beam of light is heading towards a black hole (from which light cannot escape) does light accelerate as it gets closer and closer? From 186k mi./sec to lets say... 300k mi/sec?
If so...what is the 'real' speed of light? Can light be stopped if it finds itself at a black hole's nodal point?
I think that it's only a matter of time and a huge chunk of fluke-luck before we figure out how to use those questions to our advantage. Maybe not in my lifetime, or my son's...but eventually.
chcr
Too cute for words
I hope you made that up because if it's from a textbook, it's a little simple. No, the photon or photons do not (in fact cannot) exceed the speed of light (in a vacuum) in normal space. What happens is it disappears (from normal space anyway). Matter is annihilated at the event horizon of a black hole (hence the xrays), why not light? The simple fact is that anything that happens past the event horizon of a black hole cannot be described in terms of normal space because all equations involving speeds faster than light involve the square root of -1. Maybe you know what it is, I haven't figured it out yet.MrBishop said:
MrBishop
Well-Known Member
Part of it was made up...part of it is from a brainstorming session that I heard at Mensa. Anythign goes during brainstorming.chcr said:I hope you made that up because if it's from a textbook, it's a little simple. No, the photon or photons do not (in fact cannot) exceed the speed of light (in a vacuum) in normal space. What happens is it disappears (from normal space anyway). Matter is annihilated at the event horizon of a black hole (hence the xrays), why not light? The simple fact is that anything that happens past the event horizon of a black hole cannot be described in terms of normal space because all equations involving speeds faster than light involve the square root of -1. Maybe you know what it is, I haven't figured it out yet.
That 'dissapears from normal space' is interesting. In either case...we can guess or calculate what happens beyond the event horizon. Knowing for sure...welll.. that's science for you.
sq rt of -1 hmmm -1/eleventyseven
chcr
Too cute for words
Well, we can guess. Calculating would once again involve that -1/eleventyseven. I understand a lot of math, but I just can't get around imaginary numbers. My sense is that they describe other universes (other realities?), but until someone shows me one I'll withhold judgement.
MrBishop
Well-Known Member
Hell...I can barely wrap my brain around some of the math to describe our own universe (let alone tax-forms). I'll leave the imaginary numbers stuff to the uber-geeks.chcr said:Well, we can guess. Calculating would once again involve that -1/eleventyseven. I understand a lot of math, but I just can't get around imaginary numbers. My sense is that they describe other universes (other realities?), but until someone shows me one I'll withhold judgement.
Winky
Well-Known Member
What are human races, and how did they develop?
Anthropologists have long argued that race lacks biological reality. But our genetic makeup does vary with geographic origin and as such raises political and ethical as well as scientific questions.
Why do some countries grow and others stagnate?
From Norway to Nigeria, living standards across countries vary enormously, and they're not becoming more equal.
Why has poverty increased and life expectancy declined in sub-Saharan Africa?
Almost all efforts to reduce poverty in sub-Saharan Africa have failed. Figuring out what will work is crucial to alleviating massive human suffering.
Heh heh heh hee hee hoo hooh hah Hic!
Anthropologists have long argued that race lacks biological reality. But our genetic makeup does vary with geographic origin and as such raises political and ethical as well as scientific questions.
Why do some countries grow and others stagnate?
From Norway to Nigeria, living standards across countries vary enormously, and they're not becoming more equal.
Why has poverty increased and life expectancy declined in sub-Saharan Africa?
Almost all efforts to reduce poverty in sub-Saharan Africa have failed. Figuring out what will work is crucial to alleviating massive human suffering.
Heh heh heh hee hee hoo hooh hah Hic!