US economy returns to growth - nice job, barack!!!
- Thread starter 2minkey
- Start date
2minkey
bootlicker
yeah, but... the problem really isn't that they are brainiacs, but that they are selfish shitbags. i suppose that might represent a massive moral failure of our culture, since we seem to have produced a lot of them. perhaps eventually the history books will mention them as a class right below salesmen, lawyers, and convenience store owners.
Nobody can come in below lawyers. Hell, pedophiles are even, or slightly higher.
Not brainiacs, so much, as schooled in these tricks. I was incommunicado
for a decade. One job that I was happy with. The business world changed
radically, from the early to mid 90's to the 00's. It's shocking at the difference.
You once mentioned the socialist-styled business model (one set of wages, one set
of benefits, etc). Thanks to lawyers, that's where we've ended up. Although,
that's been standard for decades, to some degree. It's easier on the books.
Unfortunately, someone decided that breathing yes-men were better & more
suited than a real thinking individual. Easier to control I suppose. Customer
service has eroded to nothing. Ever walk into a (fill in store name here) and
ask where they keep the Bagamarolls? The idiot clerk does exactly what you do,
walks the aisles looking down them (assuming they don't just say no & walk
away). Go buy a new audio/video product. Ask what the difference is between this
model & that one. They'll read the same tag you're reading. We used to know
that stuff. In my job, the asshole that doesn't complete his tasks & finds it too difficult
to finish his job properly, gets back to the yard & is sent home for the day, while the
people who show ability & competence are worked to death.
No wonder the Chinese are beating us
Not brainiacs, so much, as schooled in these tricks. I was incommunicado
for a decade. One job that I was happy with. The business world changed
radically, from the early to mid 90's to the 00's. It's shocking at the difference.
You once mentioned the socialist-styled business model (one set of wages, one set
of benefits, etc). Thanks to lawyers, that's where we've ended up. Although,
that's been standard for decades, to some degree. It's easier on the books.
Unfortunately, someone decided that breathing yes-men were better & more
suited than a real thinking individual. Easier to control I suppose. Customer
service has eroded to nothing. Ever walk into a (fill in store name here) and
ask where they keep the Bagamarolls? The idiot clerk does exactly what you do,
walks the aisles looking down them (assuming they don't just say no & walk
away). Go buy a new audio/video product. Ask what the difference is between this
model & that one. They'll read the same tag you're reading. We used to know
that stuff. In my job, the asshole that doesn't complete his tasks & finds it too difficult
to finish his job properly, gets back to the yard & is sent home for the day, while the
people who show ability & competence are worked to death.
No wonder the Chinese are beating us
2minkey
bootlicker
yup. i find myself only buying significant things from places that offer the service level i expect.
it's easy to see the logic that drives bad service. the old "why should someone you're paying $x/hr care? it's just a mcjob for them." but it's also a clear indicator of the selfishness we easily understand and rationalize.
one thing i don't quite get - how do you see lawyers driving wage leveling? something about normalized labor relations and the NLRB, or something else?
it's easy to see the logic that drives bad service. the old "why should someone you're paying $x/hr care? it's just a mcjob for them." but it's also a clear indicator of the selfishness we easily understand and rationalize.
one thing i don't quite get - how do you see lawyers driving wage leveling? something about normalized labor relations and the NLRB, or something else?
Go ask a the lawyer for the woman who doesn't make as much as a man. Go ask the lawyer for the guy who found out his co-workers bargained for 14% more than he makes. Go ask the lawyer of the Mexican who thinks it's not right that the gringo gets paid more.
We were just told by the VP to turn down a guy for a driving job. A former truckdriver who went to work for the Florida Highway Patrol, wants to leave FL to return back to Indiana but doesn't want to be a cop anymore. He took, and passed, the drivers test, at one of our Florida branches. He passed all the federal paperwork. He was ready to pack his U-haul & head up here & to start ASAP. Our VP saw his app & said that it would set a bad precedence (not having immediate prior experience).
Lawyers
We were just told by the VP to turn down a guy for a driving job. A former truckdriver who went to work for the Florida Highway Patrol, wants to leave FL to return back to Indiana but doesn't want to be a cop anymore. He took, and passed, the drivers test, at one of our Florida branches. He passed all the federal paperwork. He was ready to pack his U-haul & head up here & to start ASAP. Our VP saw his app & said that it would set a bad precedence (not having immediate prior experience).
Lawyers
2minkey
bootlicker
um, ideally women should make as much as men for the same job with all other things being equivalent e.g. relevant experience. on the other hand, at least in a freedom to work state/under employment-at-will, when you take a job, you take the pay rate you negotiated... so... there's also historical hiring rates - perhaps you simply can't afford to hire at a rate you once did.
still, i'd be pissed if you were making more money than me at the same job because you are so much prettier.
in a larger sense i'm not sure i agree that it is the lawyers. i think they are a product of our "i'm owed" culture, not the proximate cause of me, me, me. then again relatively small numbers of agitators have had profound impacts in many situations, so i could be convinced otherwise...
that doesn't sound like a very good decision on the part of the VP, but it is his or her right to make that decision. so, what, you're saying is that
a) weenies bitch and moan about equal pay while people willing to work aren't getting hired because...
b) people like your VP are too wuss to do something that might cause bureaucratic annoyance and
c) potentially expose the company to (more) liability when they get sued because of an accident where the plaintiff atty. makes inquiries into hiring requirements and uses them to suggest the company hires less-experienced drivers to save a buck. "blatant abrogation of usual and customary duties to protect the safety of OH WOULD YOU THINKS OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!"
yeah.
hey, i didn't say they weren't opportunistic schmucks...
The irony about the women are paid less fallacy is,
ALL things being equal, women make more then men. Typically, wimmins take time
off for child-rearing/familial obligations & lose several months to years experience. I
know for a fact that on the physical labor side of it, gals get what the guys get & usually
cannot do the exact same job. Not many broads can hump a couple of 80lb bags of
concrete over to the mixer, without help.
ALL things being equal, women make more then men. Typically, wimmins take time
off for child-rearing/familial obligations & lose several months to years experience. I
know for a fact that on the physical labor side of it, gals get what the guys get & usually
cannot do the exact same job. Not many broads can hump a couple of 80lb bags of
concrete over to the mixer, without help.
2minkey
bootlicker
http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/p23-210.pdf
it's a little old, but... start on page four...
80 lb bags of concrete? anyone who needs to repeatedly lift that would have some kind of mechanical assist in the plants i've worked at. regardless that's a small niche in the working world.
what about men that can't function mentally as well as most women?
it's a little old, but... start on page four...
80 lb bags of concrete? anyone who needs to repeatedly lift that would have some kind of mechanical assist in the plants i've worked at. regardless that's a small niche in the working world.
what about men that can't function mentally as well as most women?
Construction sites, more than plants, in my example. See, there you go, thinking like OSHA again I stand by the premise though. In my experience, the pay is equal but the work isn't. Some women outperform their male counterpart, without doubt. Adding your query to the mix, takes us back to the whole gender identified jobs. Not a lot of guys could play secretary or nurse & not a lot of women can hang drywall or lay foundations. Men want Venus & Women have Uranus, or whatever that book title was.
http://www.swifteconomics.com/2009/09/21/lies-damned-lies-and-statistics-the-wage-gap/
There have been several studies, one, I believe, is in these hallowed RW halls, that show, when women don't follow traditional paths (marriage, family, etc) they end up earning more than a man in the same, or equal, position. Since most women don't go to, and stay on, a single minded career tract, the wages seperate. With qualifying reason.
In the end, all things are never equal.
I stand by the premise though. In my experience, the pay is equal but the work isn't. Some women outperform their male counterpart, without doubt. Adding your query to the mix, takes us back to the whole gender identified jobs. Not a lot of guys could play secretary or nurse & not a lot of women can hang drywall or lay foundations. Men want Venus & Women have Uranus, or whatever that book title was.http://www.swifteconomics.com/2009/09/21/lies-damned-lies-and-statistics-the-wage-gap/
There have been several studies, one, I believe, is in these hallowed RW halls, that show, when women don't follow traditional paths (marriage, family, etc) they end up earning more than a man in the same, or equal, position. Since most women don't go to, and stay on, a single minded career tract, the wages seperate. With qualifying reason.
In the end, all things are never equal.
2minkey
bootlicker
he makes some interesting points but his conclusion was obviously reached before he delved into any data.
and he's simply naive.
he completely ignores the social dynamic of the of the institution/corporation. i'll try to nutshell this...
in high pressure business situations, one prefers to have cronies that would, if push came to shove, have the same opinions and produce the same decisions. or have ironclad rules that force sameness of approach in more rudimentary business units where decisions and issues are usually the same. this is a critical in any chain of command. who do you trust? the bitch in sector 7G? or your buddies that you have beers with? hmmmm. who gets ahead on the golf course? the board room...?
and he's simply naive.
he completely ignores the social dynamic of the of the institution/corporation. i'll try to nutshell this...
in high pressure business situations, one prefers to have cronies that would, if push came to shove, have the same opinions and produce the same decisions. or have ironclad rules that force sameness of approach in more rudimentary business units where decisions and issues are usually the same. this is a critical in any chain of command. who do you trust? the bitch in sector 7G? or your buddies that you have beers with? hmmmm. who gets ahead on the golf course? the board room...?
Trust, or like.
I'm one of the freaks. I look at performance. She may be a bitch, but damn
does she get the job done. However, she makes our beer go flat when she enters the room.