What part of the 4th amendment does the administation not understand?

[markjs]

I posted this in another thread but I kind of thought it deserved it's own thread.

What part of this:

Bill of Rights, Amendment IV, The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

allows for such a thing as the Patriot Act. It's clear as glass that most of the Patriot Act is unconstitutional and therefore illegal. Seems some courts are finding that too, though I don't know all the details.

Nothing at all patriotic about this unconstitutional legislation.

 

[MrBishop]

I posted this in another thread but I kind of thought it deserved it's own thread.

What part of this:



allows for such a thing as the Patriot Act. It's clear as glass that most of the Patriot Act is unconstitutional and therefore illegal. Seems some courts are finding that too, though I don't know all the details.

Nothing at all patriotic about this unconstitutional legislation.

Can you post the descriptive of the Patriot Act? I don't know of it, but just on the surface (based on your counter-argument and the title of the act) it sounds like the Young-Patriot act from the Nazis whereby children could report on their parents and neighbours if they weren't Patriotic enough.

Am I close?

 

[Professur]

Lemme guess. You guys now have a 'not withstanding' clause too.

 

[PT]

It gives the US govt more power to search and sieze if there is suspicion of terrorist activities, including such things as money laundering or possession of large amounts of guns. That's the main problem anyway.

 

[markjs]

Here is a link to the Patriot act. It's long and admittedly I have not read all of it. I know though that it does give government agencies powers they ought not have to spy on good Americans.

Patriot Act

 

[MrBishop]

Here is a link to the Patriot act. It's long and admittedly I have not read all of it. I know though that it does give government agencies powers they ought not have to spy on good Americans.

Patriot Act

Thanks..


PT - LArge amounts of guns? How many is considered a large amount? I never did understand why people have to own more than 1-3 guns anyway...unless they're a collection (antique firearms etc.)

 

[PT]

Well, that's where it is far too vague. If I own 6 guns, is that a large amount? I may not think so, in fact, most people that live around me don't think so. You have your long .22, your short .22 your deer rifle, two shotguns, and a pistol. Perfectly normal. But, take those six guns to say New York, and you own a large number of guns. The ambiguity is what is going to kill us on this one. It specifies Suspicion. Not evidence, but Suspicion. Who is to determine that? Not a judge....

 

[Professur]

Last attempt to drill it in, Bish.

It's not a have. It's a want.


Like I don't have to have 6 cars. But I want to have them. I bought a small car for when I want to drive a small car. I bought a van for when I want a to keep a lot of stuff with me, dry. I bought a pickup for when I want to keep a lot of stuff with me, and I don't wanna scar up the van. I bought a sports car for when I wanna get somewhere fast. Just because I change my mind now, doesn't mean I wanna get rid of what I already have.

I start with a .22. Then I get better, so I upgrade to a .38. Then a .45 auto. I start hunting, so I get a .303. Then a 12 guage. Maybe a .50 for moose. I buy an antique elephant gun, for show. An old west lever action, 'coz it looks cool. A pair of chrome plated .45 revolvers.

Am I a militia yet? A nut? A danger to society?

 

[Leslie]

*backs out of the Ted Nugent fan club thread*

 

[drkavnger99]

*backs out of the Ted Nugent fan club thread*

On the basis of looking like an idiot what does that have to do with anything?

 

[markjs]

Ted Nugent is a big guns rights activist, as well as the author of "Cat Scratch Fever" LOL.

 

[Professur]

He's also a retard with a chainsaw.

 

[Gotnolegs]

PT - LArge amounts of guns? How many is considered a large amount? I never did understand why people have to own more than 1-3 guns anyway...unless they're a collection (antique firearms etc.)

Difficult question. The gun laws are very different here but I own 5 swords. To some people that is a ridiculous amount. To a sword collecting martial artist it isn't many at all. All depends on the person I suppose. Now if you give that perosn the right to lock me up if he thinks 5 is too many I'd say that is taking away my rights. But I'm not a US citizen so I don't really have rights.

 

[Leslie]

He's also a retard with a chainsaw.

on further research...I find he'salso with a Kamp for Kids with special bonus ask Unkle Ted page

that's positively the scariest thing I've seen so far this week

 

[unclehobart]

All the Patriot Act has to do is redefine the basis of 'reasonable' and you're toast.

 

[Mirlyn]

It gives the US govt more power to search and sieze if there is suspicion of terrorist activities, including such things as money laundering or possession of large amounts of guns. That's the main problem anyway.

The FBI can issue a warrant to itself to search and confiscate. This was extended to bank accounts, past and present transactions, purchases, deposits, etc. And guess what? You're prohibited to say anything to anyone about it--not just why it happened, but that it even happened at all.

 

[Gato_Solo]

Looking back, this wasn't much of a stretch from the smoking bans in nightclubs.

 

[Professur]

Quebec's universal ban on smoking in public places comes into effect in 2 months. I can't wait to hear the screaming. Bars were told this morning that, if they want, they can have a private smoking room for customers. No music, no food, and no drinks allowed within. Only smoking.

 

[Gonz]

Should do wonders for the take-out joints