Wimmens in the workplace.

Nixy said:
It's my way of saying that if both your parents were alive well into your adulthood you have no way of knowing what it's like to lose a parent as a child. Therefore, you have no right to make statements that losing a mother is worse than a father, or vice versa.
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not true
on both counts there.
I have every Right, and...
My best friend growing up lost his dad at 2, and we talked about it quite often. (relatively speaking)
I had another friend that lost his mother, while being born.

So here's a question for you to ponder.....
Do you think it's tougher not having a dad, or having a very abusive alcoholic dad?
(I've had that conversation with my friend also)
 
Yes, I still think beacause, until he's dead, there is a possibility.
 
ok, ...one step farther....

if the kid dies, is the kid better off than the dad not being around?
 
catocom said:
So here's a question for you to ponder.....
Do you think it's tougher not having a dad, or having a very abusive alcoholic dad?
(I've had that conversation with my friend also)
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I never had a very abusive alcoholic father, so I would never be so bold as to assume I know what that feels like. Even if someone had recounted their experiences to me, I wouldn't have felt it myself. Therefore, I am not qualified to speak on the matter.
 
catocom said:
not true
on both counts there.
I have every Right, and...
My best friend growing up lost his dad at 2, and we talked about it quite often. (relatively speaking)
I had another friend that lost his mother, while being born.
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Both unfortunate events for your friends. However, just because of your friends the one who lost his mother had a harder time (I assume that's the case, based on your statement) it doesn't make that a general rule. Losing either parent is a tragedy and it's presumptuous to think you can even begin to generalize about such things. Granted, I know nothing about these circumstances other than what you've posted here but it seems the friend who lost his mother may potentially also feel guilt around that (I've heard of many people who feel very guilty their whole lives if their mothers died giving birth to them), which would of course just make a tragic experience even worse. Possibly not a fair comparison.
 
Nixy said:
I never had a very abusive alcoholic father, so I would never be so bold as to assume I know what that feels like. Even if someone had recounted their experiences to me, I wouldn't have felt it myself. Therefore, I am not qualified to speak on the matter.
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Then you aren't qualified to say whether I have a right to say anything then.

Nixy said:
Both unfortunate events for your friends. However, just because of your friends the one who lost his mother had a harder time (I assume that's the case, based on your statement) it doesn't make that a general rule. Losing either parent is a tragedy and it's presumptuous to think you can even begin to generalize about such things. Granted, I know nothing about these circumstances other than what you've posted here but it seems the friend who lost his mother may potentially also feel guilt around that (I've heard of many people who feel very guilty their whole lives if their mothers died giving birth to them), which would of course just make a tragic experience even worse. Possibly not a fair comparison.
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Well, there are all kinds of circumstance, but from all the people I know,
The statistical percentage is behind me.
Now...also my assessment is for a certain generation, so I'll concede, that things
may be/have changed.

Gonz said:
Did dad kill him?

If not, it's irrelevant. If so, then it went way beyond simple abuse.
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yeah, that's the senario....beat to death. (I said Very, not simple)
...
Gonz what about incest/rape...
Are you really saying there's no scenario where it'd have been a better thing?
 
yep, that's why I used the tern "very abusive" from the start on this round.

Stats also show that males are usually more violent than women in family violence cases,
or used to. Like I said it's been a while since I studied it.

I started out slow, because I wondered where a line might be with you.
 
Your premise was, a living abusive father vs a dead father.

An abusive parent, of either kind, should be kept away from, or heavily supervised. However, an abusive parent who can change beat a dead one.
 
well, I don't know how else to convey my point correctly, so I'll just leave it at that.

*concedes point
 
imo, it ain't really the drinking, it's the abuse.
Drinking just seems to heighten an already abusive person, and imo
(with a few exceptions in %age) men abusers tend to be more physically violent.
I think probably because of the sheer strength difference. (maybe the testosterone too)
There are difference between men and women, no matter how much people
want to try to equalize (everything) out about them.
I'm not trying to impede womens rights, just because of chauvinism.
I'm just saying....I don't think we should...like ....all be using the same bathroom...

I'm just growing tired of the discussion on it now.
 
catocom said:
I don't care what anybody says....If a child loses a mother, it's harder on them
than losing the father, and if it's a single mom...
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My mom raised 3 kids as a single mother. She told me about the discrimination she ran up against from men who promoted other men though she was more qualified (education and experience) and worked harder to distinguish herself. She was told it was because because she could find a man to marry and support her, and the man promoted had a family to support. It's this kind of discrimination that keeps single mom's poor and puts barriers to success in front of her kids. Despite the hardships she endured she was a fighter and all of her kids went to university (sister got a masters) and all have successful and rewarding careers.

To add to the ongoing debate "dead dad vs alcoholic dad", I think no dad is better than an alcoholic dad. My dad was a drrunk and abused my mom. He drank all our money away every Friday night. Mom got a seasonal job. On payday, she went directly to the grocery store, bought food for us kids and her and hid the remainder of her money for a rainy day. She finally divorced him and I am as happy now for it as I was then. His second round of kids (3 more from wife #2) ended up: 1) a drop out, ex-con (prison for drugs, theft, burglery) with failed kidneys (likely from a history of drug abuse); 2) another drop out who drifts between unemployment and crappy job; 3) a Unix admin with a GED. One out of 3 = successful. My mom without my dad = 3 successful kids.
 
valkyrie said:
The view you are expressing is one that prevented a lot of women from moving up (and getting raises) in the workforce in the 70's. I'm glad your opinion is in the minority. I would face many unnecessary obstacles in my career if it were.
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Sadly that attitude is still very prevelant over here in certain sections of our society - certainly the so-called working and upper class. It's the middle/professional class who appear to be more enlightened.
 
catocom said:
I don't care what anybody says....If a child loses a mother, it's harder on them
than losing the father, and if it's a single mom...
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I think it depends on the child, the circumstances of the death and the support they receive afterwards.

Both my parents lost their mothers before they were 13.

My father was a loving family man who doted on his wife and children. His family was his life. His mother died of natural causes and he had a gaggle of extended family to care for him.

My mother is a cold, selfish, bitch who thinks of no-one but herself and was incredbly jealous of any attention my father paid to us... everythng was about her. Her mother commited suicide and within a year she had an evil step-mother... if you want to believe her story... but she tells so many different ones... who knows?

My daughter was a godsend to me because she taught me what a real mother-child relationship is supposed to be like... and made me a better person because of it.

I always have to consider what my mother's ulterior motive is for what she does, because it's never out of affection for me. She's usually trying to manipulate me in some way.

She's transferred that to me since my sister's death... my sister was daft enough to play along... I'm not... oops... there goes the applecart!

:retard:
 
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