Once again, Democrats stand in the schoolhouse door.

[2minkey]

Have you received unemployment?

yeah, it does seem like someone is looking for a way to deny having accepted government handouts, doesn't it.

 

[Gonz]

Socialism gives all the power to the people/public equally. Everybody owns everything as opposed to a select few owning the means of production and the masses working towards making the select few richer.(Capitalism).

That's not how it's worked in the past..but then again, Capitalism isn't working the way it was conceived either.

Equality is a pipe dream. Everybody owns equates to government owned since Tim the Toolman can't walk into Bobs Bakery & share the wealth.

Capitalism most certainly does work...to bad it's now regulated & socialized.

 

[Gonz]

Interesting. A state program. I didn't take a dime from my brothers & sisters in California or Washington. My employers handbook instructed us how to go about getting UI since he was paying it. Since the layoffs were part of the system, so was unemployment compensation due to such layoffs.

Yep, I took a state check (funded by my employer) but I was back to work in less than 45 days. Take away UI & I won't apply. I never applied for food stamps (a federal program) or cash welfare benefits (a federal program) or welfare in general nor have I asked for any federal dollars so I could have my rent lowered (or non-existant)

 

[spike]

Well gee if you get handouts from state taxes that makes all the difference in the world.

 

[Gonz]

Did you miss this part?

funded by my employer

 

[2minkey]

whatever dude, still seems like a handout.

and you should be bitching up a storm about employers having to pay anything into such a system to begin with.

 

[spike]

Did you miss this part?

Cause that's not the way it works. it comes froma tax on all employers.

That would be like if you collected welfare and tried to justify it as being funded by you. Yeah, your tax dollars went to it but so did a lot of other people's.

Fact is for a month and a half you took free money for not working paid for by taxes.

 

[Cerise]

It wasn't free, it was taxable income.

You do know what income is, don't you?

And the significance of April 15th?

 

[spike]

It wasn't free,

Sure it was. You do no work and yet you get paid.

You do know what income is, don't you?

Yes, unlike with unemployment handouts I have to work to receive money. I think the problem here is that you don't understand what income is. Let me help.

The amount of money or its equivalent received during a period of time in exchange for labor or services, from the sale of goods or property, or as profit from financial investments.

http://www.answers.com/income

See, whether you pay tax on it or not doesn't matter. You're still receiving money for not working.


Have you received unemployment?

 

[Gonz]

and you should be bitching up a storm about employers having to pay anything into such a system to begin with.

I do think it's horeshit. However, my beef is with the federal government. If the state gets too stupid, you can move. More control over local pols than federal ones.

 

[Gonz]

See, whether you pay tax on it or not doesn't matter. You're still receiving money for not working.

Delayed compensation. Instead of making $23/hr, I have to forgo current income because it's being diverted.

 

[jimpeel]

Those who consider unemployment (UI) to be a "handout" have no concept of how the system works.

If your employer did not have to divert funds to the state to cover your unemployment they could pay you that money as compensation instead. The state is merely the administrator of those funds which are paid into the system.

The monies paid are yours, not the employer's and not the state's. It is like you have a phantom non-interest bearing savings account waiting in the wings.

If you do not claim UI then you are simply not claiming that which rightfully belongs to you. That is your prerogative. Saying that others should do as you do, as stupid as that is, is not up to you. If you want to leave your money wasting away in the coffers of the state -- monies which are rightfully yours -- then you have my blessing. Just don't look down your noses at those who are not idiotic enough to do likewise.

 

[Inkara1]

I missed a lot of time at work in late February/early March due to a medical issue in which I was in the hospital for a while and had to recover. I'll be applying for a payment from the California State Disability Insurance. I've had some of my income diverted into that fund from every paycheck since I was 17, through no choice of my own. I feel fully justified in applying for a payment out of the fund I've been forced to pay into. If I hadn't paid into that fund, I wouldn't consider applying for a payment from it.

Spike... think of unemployment insurance as government AFLAC, except for unemployment instead of injury. With AFLAC, when you get cash payments, you're not working but receiving cash from everyone that participates in the program. With state unemployment insurance, when you get cash payments, you're not working but receiving cash from everyone that participates in the program. You're fixated on who the administrator is at the expense of the rest of the facts.

 

[spike]

Delayed compensation. Instead of making $23/hr, I have to forgo current income because it's being diverted.

If you went on Welfare then you could justify that as delayed compensation because part of your paycheck was diverted to that program.

If your employer did not have to divert funds to the state to cover your unemployment they could pay you that money as compensation instead.

So if you work and pay taxes towards government programs like welfare you're fully justified in going on welfare later.

If you do not claim UI then you are simply not claiming that which rightfully belongs to you. That is your prerogative. Saying that others should do as you do, as stupid as that is, is not up to you.

Heh nice, so if I just keep working instead of getting paid for not working that's stupid.

I've had some of my income diverted into that fund from every paycheck since I was 17, through no choice of my own. I feel fully justified in applying for a payment out of the fund I've been forced to pay into.

Seems reasonable. You could make exactly the same argument for going on welfare or taking food stamps for awhile then too.

I'm just finding it amusing that someone like Gonz who tries to demonize welfare so often is perfectly willing to take tax money for not working when it's convenient for him.

 

[Inkara1]

Yeah, your need to stroke your ego by trying to prove someone a hypocrite is blinding you to the facts of the case.

Unemployment insurance is INSURANCE, not a HANDOUT. You have to pay into the program before you can draw out of it. If you've never worked a day in your life, you cannot get payments from the unemployment insurance program. Welfare is a HANDOUT, not INSURANCE. If you've never worked a day in your life, you can get welfare, food stamps, etc. Gonz demonizes government handouts. Why is that such a hard concept for you to grasp?

 

[spike]

Yeah, your need to stroke your ego by trying to prove someone a hypocrite is blinding you to the facts of the case.

Nope, i'm completely aware of the facts of the case

Unemployment insurance is INSURANCE, not a HANDOUT.

Yes, it is. You get paid while you're not working.

You have to pay into the program before you can draw out of it. If you've never worked a day in your life, you cannot get payments from the unemployment insurance program.

It is easily possible to take out far more than you've paid in.

Welfare is a HANDOUT, not INSURANCE. If you've never worked a day in your life, you can get welfare, food stamps, etc. Gonz demonizes government handouts. Why is that such a hard concept for you to grasp?

Gonz only demonizes government handouts he doesn't use himself.

 

[Inkara1]

Nope, i'm completely aware of the facts of the case

Obviously not.

Yes, it is. You get paid while you're not working.

You get paid money that's been paid in by your employer, and by extension, you. This is money you cannot get if you have not worked. That's the fundamental difference between that and welfare. Unemployment insurance is not a handout. I always thought you were educated but your complete inability to understand this simple point really boggles the mind.

It is easily possible to take out far more than you've paid in.

Just like with private health insurance, or car insurance, or worker's comp insurance, or AFLAC. If you get new private health insurance, and then two months later you need surprise open heart surgery, which would cost far more than the one or two monthly payments you've made into your private health insurance, do you consider that to be a free handout as well?

Gonz only demonizes government handouts he doesn't use himself.

He didn't use a handout. Welfare is a handout. Unemployment is an insurance payout. These are two different things. Who the administrator of the fund is does not matter.

Unemployment insurance is not a handout.

Unemployment. Insurance. Is. Not. A. Handout.

Can I make it any clearer than that, or do I need to get out the finger puppets to help explain it?

 

[spike]

Obviously not.

Obviously far more than you.

You get paid money that's been paid in by your employer, and by extension, you.

You get paid money for not working that comes from taxes on all employers.

This is money you cannot get if you have not worked.

But of course you can easily get far more than you paid in.

That's the fundamental difference between that and welfare.

There are differences but fundamentally you're getting paid while not working.

Unemployment insurance is not a handout.

Sure it is.

I always thought you were educated but your complete inability to understand this simple point really boggles the mind.

I would argue that you're displaying a mind boggling inability to understand a simple idea and that in your irrationality you have attempted to substitute trolling and insults for reason. It's typical of a losing argument.

Just like with private health insurance, or car insurance, or worker's comp insurance, or AFLAC. If you get new private health insurance, and then two months later you need surprise open heart surgery, which would cost far more than the one or two monthly payments you've made into your private health insurance, do you consider that to be a free handout as well?

I'm saying that if you consider Welfare purely a handout then Unemploment is simalr enough to be considered a handout. There are differences but that doesn't make them entirely different. If it did I could simply point out that car insurance is entirely voluntary and claim that makes it completely differed from unemployment.

He didn't use a handout. Welfare is a handout. Unemployment is an insurance payout. These are two different things.

They are two different things that are both handouts.

Unemployment insurance is not a handout.

Unemployment. Insurance. Is. Not. A. Handout.

Unemployment is a handout.

Can I make it any clearer than that, or do I need to get out the finger puppets to help explain it?

More trolling. Figures.

 

[Inkara1]

Obviously far more than you.

Obviously not.

You get paid money for not working that comes from taxes on all employers.

But that does not make it a handout.

But of course you can easily get far more than you paid in.

And that matters how? Oh, wait. It doesn't. (As an aside, Gonz was on unemployment for 45 days, and was paying into it for many, many years before that, which makes your non-point even less of a point in this case.)

There are differences but fundamentally you're getting paid while not working.

From money your employer has paid into the fund. With welfare, there is no requirement to pay anything in first.

Sure it is.

If you had to pay in first, it seems pretty obvious that it's not a handout.

I would argue that you're displaying a mind boggling inability to understand a simple idea and that in your irrationality you have attempted to substitute trolling and insults for reason. It's typical of a losing argument.

I've got the idea understood, obviously a lot better than you do. As such, you've resulted to hypocrisy by accusing me of trolling and being insulting, and doing so in a patronizing tone, simply because I've expressed frustration that you're refusing to grasp a simple concept, and are doing so simply because you think it will make someone you don't like look bad. Sounds like someone might want to look in the mirror if he wants to find a losing argument.

I'm saying that if you consider Welfare purely a handout then Unemploment is simalr enough to be considered a handout. There are differences but that doesn't make them entirely different. If it did I could simply point out that car insurance is entirely voluntary and claim that makes it completely differed from unemployment.

The fact you just tried to tell me that car insurance is not compulsory is simply laughable. Now not only are you insulting, you're also wrong on your understanding of basic California law. Go ahead and drive without insurance and see what happens if you get caught.

You can drive without car insurance and there are legal repercussions if you get caught. An employer can fail to pay the worker's comp fund (worker's comp insurance is compulsory too) and there are legal repercussions if the employer is caught. An employer can fail to pay into the unemployment insurance fund and there are legal repercussions if that employer is caught.

They are two different things that are both handouts.

At least we can agree that they're two different things. Too bad you're wrong about unemployment being a handout, though.

Unemployment NOT is a handout.

There. Edited for accuracy. You're welcome.

More trolling. Figures.

It's a simple point. I've made it as clear as possible. If you consider that trolling, then there's nothing I can do to help you.

 

[Gonz]

Yes, it is. You get paid while you're not working.

So then, you're against people gettng things they haven't earned? Good. Welcome to the club.


Now, using your guidance, medical insurance is bad because you get to see a medical care professional & not pay for it. So then, you will also find governtment funded healthcare equally bad? Again, good, welcome to the club.