Once again, Democrats stand in the schoolhouse door.

[spike]

But that does not make it a handout.

It does indeed.

And that matters how? Oh, wait. It doesn't.

It nullifies any argument that's your money anyway.

From money your employer has paid into the fund.

From taxes all employers pay.

With welfare, there is no requirement to pay anything in first.

So? Since Gonz has paid into welfare for awhile now if he went on that program you wouldn't consider the program a handout anymore?


If you had to pay in first, it seems pretty obvious that it's not a handout.

I've got the idea understood, obviously a lot better than you do.

Not a chance.

As such, you've resulted to hypocrisy by accusing me of trolling and being insulting

No hypocrisy, you started trolling and insulting. I did not. Quit being childish and talk like an adult.

frustration that you're refusing to grasp a simple concept

You are refusing to grasp a simple concept. Getting paid while offering no goods or services in return is a handout.

The fact you just tried to tell me that car insurance is not compulsory is simply laughable

The level of insurance that you get, the company you use for insurance, your deductible, the other people you insure to drive your car is all of your own choosing. By your logic i have just proved that it is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than unemployment.

At least we can agree that they're two different things. Too bad you're wrong about unemployment being a handout, though.

One is called welfare and one is called unemployment. If one is a handout the other is too.

It's a simple point. I've made it as clear as possible. If you consider that trolling, then there's nothing I can do to help you.

You misunderstood apparently, the finger puppets comment was the childish trolling.

 

[spike]

So then, you're against people gettng things they haven't earned? Good. Welcome to the club.

I'm not necessarily against welfare or unemployment. They're just both handouts. They also are often very necessary as well as often abused. Also I think both programs could be designed to more effectively.

For example often people on unemployment get almost as much from their benefits as they could if they went back to work for 40 hours a week.

The choice then becomes sit at home vs work your butt off for approximately the same amount of dough. many people will choose to sit at home.

Also I have run into construction workers back in New York who couldn't work during winter months. So they would just go on unemployment each and every winter.

Now, using your guidance, medical insurance

By Inkara's logic medical insurance and unemployment are two different things. Therefore they can't share any similarities.

 

[2minkey]

Those who consider unemployment (UI) to be a "handout" have no concept of how the system works.

yeah whatever jim. but i'm sure you know the way it REALLY works, right?

 

[jimpeel]

So if you work and pay taxes towards government programs like welfare you're fully justified in going on welfare later.

Yes, and hell yes. If you pay into the system you should get something out. If those who pay in are barred from using what they pay for then it is pure socialism.

If someone works for 20 years and pays into the system but then needs a couple of months of assistance that is fair. If they want to make a career of welfare than that is wrong. Those who pay into the system should also not have to pay for those who have made welfare a career.

Heh nice, so if I just keep working instead of getting paid for not working that's stupid.

Spoken like a true welfare queen.

The difference is that UI has an expiration, welfare does not.

Seems reasonable. You could make exactly the same argument for going on welfare or taking food stamps for awhile then too.

I just did,

I'm just finding it amusing that someone like Gonz who tries to demonize welfare so often is perfectly willing to take tax money for not working when it's convenient for him.

Once again --

IT'S NOT TAX MONEY. IT IS EMPLOYER MONEY ADMINISTERED BY THE STATE!

I hope that was clear.

 

[jimpeel]

Yeah, your need to stroke your ego by trying to prove someone a hypocrite is blinding you to the facts of the case.

Unemployment insurance is INSURANCE, not a HANDOUT. You have to pay into the program before you can draw out of it. If you've never worked a day in your life, you cannot get payments from the unemployment insurance program. Welfare is a HANDOUT, not INSURANCE. If you've never worked a day in your life, you can get welfare, food stamps, etc. Gonz demonizes government handouts. Why is that such a hard concept for you to grasp?

Because he is a Leftist. Welfare programs are his friend. Thirteen trillion dollars later and the war on poverty hasn't even won a battle let alone the war. It does buy votes, though.

 

[jimpeel]

Nope, i'm completely aware of the facts of the case

Then why are you so dense?

Yes, it is. You get paid while you're not working.

Compared to what you can make working it is a stipend.

It is easily possible to take out far more than you've paid in.

Now we know for sure that you have never been on UI. That is why you are so completely ignorant on the subject. A person who applies for UI gets benefits which are calculated on their highest earning quarter for the last one to one-and-a-half years. If you earned nothing then you get nothing.

The last time I was drawing UI I got $332/wk. That was a far cry from the $1,360/wk I was making before I was laid off. I got that for thirteen weeks which is $4,316. In that same thirteen week period I could have earned $17,680.

Gonz only demonizes government handouts he doesn't use himself.

It has been explained to you numerous times how the system works by those who have actually used that system and you still call it a "handout". All you are doing now is provocation.

 

[jimpeel]

yeah whatever jim. but i'm sure you know the way it REALLY works, right?

Considering that I explained it HERE, yes.

 

[spike]

Compared to what you can make working it is a stipend.

The less you make working the less difference there is.

Now we know for sure that you have never been on UI. That is why you are so completely ignorant on the subject. A person who applies for UI gets benefits which are calculated on their highest earning quarter for the last one to one-and-a-half years. If you earned nothing then you get nothing.

The last time I was drawing UI I got $332/wk. That was a far cry from the $1,360/wk I was making before I was laid off. I got that for thirteen weeks which is $4,316. In that same thirteen week period I could have earned $17,680.

Jim, nothing you said there contradicts what I said. Please pay attention.

What I said was "It is easily possible to take out far more than you've paid in." This is true.

Say just for example you worked for a year or two and then went on unemployment for 6 months at $332/wk. You would have received about $8632. Do you think that would be more or less than you had paid into the system in a year or two?

It has been explained to you numerous times how the system works

I have actually explained how the system works to others numerous times.

and you still call it a "handout".

Because it's a handout. I understand that those who get checks from the government for not working would really like to think of it as something other than a handout but it is a handout.

Hey look I found an opinion piece that backs me up. That must mean something important to you right?

For those who chose to claim unemployment insurance, it is important to understand why it exists in the first place. In theory the program is there to offer a temporary hand up during hard times while individuals are diligently seeking new work. In practice, unfortunately, the program bears a striking resemblance to a welfare handout.

http://www.effwa.org/main/article.php?article_id=128

 

[spike]

Spoken like a true welfare queen.

How the fuck does me chosing to keep working at my job instead of getting a government check like you have sound like a welfare queen exactly Jim?

I just did,

Good, I'm glad we agree on the similarities between welfare and unemployment.

Once again --

IT'S NOT TAX MONEY. IT IS EMPLOYER MONEY ADMINISTERED BY THE STATE!

I hope that was clear.

Hey Jim using big font doesn't make you any less wrong. IT IS TAX MONEY.

Look it's even called "Federal Unemployment Tax" and "State Unemployment Tax"

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/international/article/0,,id=104985,00.html

http://business.uschamber.com/P07/P07_1294.asp


Let me make the last word of those terms real big for you:

TAX


"The Federal Unemployment Tax Act (FUTA), with state unemployment systems, provides for payments of unemployment compensation to workers who have lost their jobs. Most employers pay both a Federal and a state unemployment tax. A list of state unemployment tax agencies, including addresses and phone numbers, is available in Publication 926, Household Employer's Tax Guide. Only the employer pays FUTA tax; it is not deducted from the employee's wages"

 

[jimpeel]

The less you make working the less difference there is.

...

What I said was "It is easily possible to take out far more than you've paid in." This is true.

Say just for example you worked for a year or two and then went on unemployment for 6 months at $332/wk. You would have received about $8632. Do you think that would be more or less than you had paid into the system in a year or two?

Again, you prove your ignorance of the UI system.

The amount of award for UI is determined by the amount the applicant made in their highest paid quarter in the last year. If you made nothing you get nothing. If you made little you get little.

Conversely, you can be a seventeen-year-old unwed mother who has never held a job in her life and is still in high school and you can dance into the welfare office and get benefits based upon nothing more than your perceived need.

That same seventeen-year-old unwed mother CANNOT go to the unemployment office and apply for benefits. She has paid nothing into the system so she is ineligible to get anything out.

Welfare is a handout.

UI is not.

I'm done. Post whatever lies and prevarications you want you will get no further responses.

 

[randomJACKASS]

But god forbid that 17 year old get an abortion, or even the morning after pill! She needs to be sentenced to keeping that kid for 18 years like it or not, that's the punishment for spreading her legs. The father should get a pat on the back from dad and a tall cold one! Then when that unwanted child grows up hating society and kills someone else's wanted child, we can all have that essential feel good moment when society pulls the plug on him in some state pen, after millions of dollars wasted on the cost of an execution and all the appeals in the court system.

Then we can all feel real good about ourselves, and have a tall cold one! That's the love of Jesus in action!

Kind of brings on the warm fuzzies huh Jim?

 

[MrBishop]

Semantics...it's all semantics. Call it a handout, or a payoff, or winning the GVT lottery doesn't change a thing.
Welfare - you're recieving money while not working, but the money you recieve is money you havn't 'recently' put into it. You can work for 40 years, paying in your UI..and once your UI runs out, you fall to welfare.

Doesn't discount the 40 years where you put money into the system at all.

UI is the first safety net if you lose a job and need financial help to get you on your feet and back into the workplace.

If/when it fails, Welfare is the safety net if you lose a job and need financial help to get you on your feet and back into the workplace.

They're both safety nets paid for by taxing salaries (past and present) of those who work/worked. The moneys are clumped together and used as needed to support you, your friends, families, neighbours and total strangers once the shit hits the fan.

If you never need it..great. If you do need it..great. Hopefully 'you' can use it to get back on your feet and get back into the workplace. That's the whole point of BOTH U.I. and Welfare.

Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

 

[jimpeel]

How the fuck does me chosing to keep working at my job instead of getting a government check like you have sound like a welfare queen exactly Jim?

Ah, now I understand why you are confused by the UI system. You simply don't understand it at all.

You cannot "choose" to go on UI.

To qualify for UI the applicant must have become unemployed through no fault of their own. This means that if you quit voluntarily, or you are fired for cause, you are ineligible to receive UI benefits. You are under the mistaken impression that one may simply quit their job and go on UI as they wish. That is not true.

 

[jimpeel]

She needs to be sentenced to keeping that kid for 18 years like it or not, that's the punishment for spreading her legs.

Wait a minute. That's what THIS GUY said and all of the Leftists here jumped to his defense.

Interesting, that.

 

[randomJACKASS]

When you catch me contradicting myself about this stuff le me know. I won't wait up.

 

[paul_valaru]

Let's see. You don't work and you get tax money. Whether the handout money is taxed is irrelevant.

By this twisted logic of yours I'd have to assume you'd be 100% behind welfare if it was taxable. Interesting.

unemployment INSURANCE.

You pay a deductable every paycheck.

If you lose your job, you get an income so you can pay your bills until you find another job.

It's like car insurance, you pay monthly and if you get into an accident, you get money to fix your car, the insurance company isn't handing you free money, they are fufilling their half of a business agreement.

the unemployment benefits are replacing your income, therefore you pay income tax upon them.

 

[spike]

Again, you prove your ignorance of the UI system.

No you are just continuing to show a lack of reading comprehension.

The amount of award for UI is determined by the amount the applicant made in their highest paid quarter in the last year. If you made nothing you get nothing. If you made little you get little.

Damnit Jim, just read what i typed and you will hopefully realize that nothing in the above paragraph contradicts what I said. You are on a different subject somehow.

To recap my statement was "It is easily possible to take out far more than you've paid in." or to be even clearer it is possible to receive more money in in unemployment checks than your previous employer paid in unemployment tax on your behalf.

I even gave you an example of working for a year and then getting six months of unemployment. Nobody said anything about making nothing. Just pay attention please.

Welfare is a handout.

UI is not.

No, they are both handouts you get paid from tax money while not working in exchange.

 

[paul_valaru]

No, they are both handouts you get paid from tax money while not working in exchange.

No, UI you are getting paid from the UI deductable you pay with every paycheck.

 

[spike]

Semantics...it's all semantics. Call it a handout, or a payoff, or winning the GVT lottery doesn't change a thing.
Welfare - you're recieving money while not working, but the money you recieve is money you havn't 'recently' put into it. You can work for 40 years, paying in your UI..and once your UI runs out, you fall to welfare.

Doesn't discount the 40 years where you put money into the system at all.

UI is the first safety net if you lose a job and need financial help to get you on your feet and back into the workplace.

If/when it fails, Welfare is the safety net if you lose a job and need financial help to get you on your feet and back into the workplace.

They're both safety nets paid for by taxing salaries (past and present) of those who work/worked. The moneys are clumped together and used as needed to support you, your friends, families, neighbours and total strangers once the shit hits the fan.

If you never need it..great. If you do need it..great. Hopefully 'you' can use it to get back on your feet and get back into the workplace. That's the whole point of BOTH U.I. and Welfare.

Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

 

[Gonz]

By Inkara's logic medical insurance and unemployment are two different things. Therefore they can't share any similarities.

We aren't using Inkys logic, we're analyzing yours.