Abortion (Pro-life/pro-choice/both)?

[Gonz]

Not you specifically (except the grey area part).

No, sperm donors have the exact same rights, before conception, as the egg donors. Upon delivering the seed, it's all in her hands. Before the coitus, he has many options. The smartest one is "no"

 

[BlurOfSerenity]

i wish people would use more discretion when they do get abortions.
i think that giving birth to a child that you don't love and have no desire to care for is so much worse than giving birth to a child who has health problems and may shortly die.
i'd rather live in medical treatment and know full well that it might all be in vain, that 'live' in suffering with the knowledge that mommy doesn't love me and wishes so much that i was never born... and any abuse or neglect that comes with that.

and i betcha a large percentage of abortions are in fact because the woman did not have the means, responsibility, or other capability to rightly love and care for a child.

that's the side i usually focus on when i'm thinking about the whole abortion thing.

i would rather be dead than be completely unwanted by my own mother.

p.s: i know a lot of adopted kids and a lot of them are pretty fucked up. that's why i don't always jump to "adoption!".... yeah.

 

[BeardofPants]

Yes, my half-brother was adopted out by my mother when she was 16. He was later sexually abused by his adopted father, and ending up being a mental wreck himself. I am a proponent of choice, first and foremost, but for myself, and myself alone, I know that if I were to fall pregnant any time soon, I would have an abortion. I don't want children, and I have been exposed to the pitfalls of adoption.

 

[BlurOfSerenity]

and something that always bothetred me are the varying terms for the stances.
pro-choicers are sometimes called "pro-death".
pro-lifers are sometimes called "anti-choice".

the pro-lifers think that the pro-choicers are so evil because according to them, they're "pro-death"

but even with those terms in place, i'd rather be "pro-death" than "anti-choice".

i can't think of a non-coufusing way to explain that at the moment, so i hope at least some of you have some idea where i'm coming from on that

 

[Winky]

I know that if I were to fall pregnant any time soon, I would have an abortion.

Gee Panties,
How could such a thing happen?
Getting preggers I mean? lol

Tell ya one thing I've learned, all of the women I've known that have had abortions all have had regrets in one form or another. Some think about how old the Kid would be today, Jeebus one whack job even thinks about the Kid’s birthday. Another had multiple miscarriages (abortion age 15) when she was in her early thirties and wanted kids, blamed it on the vac job. Yup bad karma all around…

 

[ResearchMonkey]

The fortune of time has fell upon me, before Roe vs Wade, I was adopted.

I had some emotional rides over it, sure . . . But I am alive and doing good all be told.

My sister adopted a child from the US and another from Romania, he was born deaf but now he can hear thanks to modern medicine.

One of my cousins adopted 2 children from Romania; One child (now 17) is missing his foot and an eye.

My other cousin also adopted a Romanian child.

My 2nd cousins also have a US and another Romanian child.

I was the first adopted child in our family, the only one from my generation. My generation of family has adopted seven more children.

Not bad, not bad at all.

 

[BlurOfSerenity]

and of course, just because your family has had luck with adoption, everyone else's should too, right?

 

[Winky]

Huh Ash?

Lemme see BOP’s relative gave up her child to another who then didn't see their responsibilities through and relatives of RM did... OK now it's clear in my mind THX Ash
Guess luck plays a BIG role in that.

 

[ResearchMonkey]

and of course, just because your family has had luck with adoption, everyone else's should too, right?

You're right, kill the little unloved bastards.

Your pessimism is astounding.

Actually it took hard work, sacrifice, and patience on the part of everyone; the parents the families, but most of all by the kids.

None of the children from Romania spoke English and they all had big problems coming from shit-infested over-crowded orphanages that were basically empty buildings full of kids.

I personally have spent hundreds of hours talking face-to-face to each child about “being adopted”. I am “that uncle” that knows the pains of being “un-loved”. I do house calls and ice-cream sundaes if needed, whenever needed.

Without hard and sacrifice any kid/family is going to get screwed-up. All families have troubles; the good ones work though them.





Family in action.

Every person in clip is family, 6 are adopted including me. (the term adopted is never heard in general conversation or in introductions, we are all just family)

low bandwidth

high badwidth


(hehe, never miss an oppertunity do I)

THE DANDELION KING


Once upon a time, a dandelion seed floated on the wind.



He landed far away from his brothers and sisters, in a field of white daisies. He settled into the soil, and took root. He grew into a little green shoot. His leaves unfurled and his yellow face turned upward towards the sun. Looking down on him, he saw a beautiful white daisy. "Are you my mother?" he asked.



She looked down at him warmly and replied, "Yes, son, I am."



The daisy cared for him lovingly, encouraging him to grow strong and tall. She protected him from the rain and the hot sun.

"Mother?" he asked her one day.



"Yes, son?



"What makes me different from the others?"



"You are special," she told him. "You are my beautiful golden boy, and I love you."



He grew tall and proud, knowing he was loved.



One day, a fierce storm ravaged the field. When the storm was over, the daisy lay broken on the ground. His mother was dead. The dandelion wept as if his heart had broken. He looked up to the other daisies, wondering who would comfort him. But their faces were cold.



"Move over!" one of them said. "Your roots are in our way!"



The dandelion looked down at the ground, and missed his mother.



"Hey!" the daisy repeated. "I asked you to move over!" The rest of the daisies shook their heads, and then, as a group, they turned away from him.



And that was the way it was, from then on. None of the other daisies wanted to talk to him. It seemed like they resented him being around. At night, when they all closed their petals and went to sleep, they didn’t hear him cry. He wondered why he had to be so different, and so alone.



One day, he stood by himself as a cold wind blew. He felt as if he was falling apart. He curled up his stem and closed his eyes tight. He felt like spring would never come.



When first rays of spring warmed his body, the dandelion lifted his head. The daisies didn’t even notice that he had risen. But close to him on the ground, he saw an amazing thing. It was a little green shoot – small and brave and hopeful.



"It is probably just another daisy," he thought sadly. "It will probably resent being planted so close to me." But as the little sprout grew, he saw that it wasn’t a daisy at all. As she turned her little yellow face to the sky, he saw that she looked just like him! He had never seen such a beautiful sight.



She smiled up at him. "Are you my father?" she asked.



"Yes, daughter, I am."




He protected her from the rain and from the sun. He encouraged her to grow strong and tall. He saw his own uniqueness reflected in her, and for the first time, he learned how to love himself.




Together in the field, the father drew his daughter close to him.



Father," she asked, "What makes us different?"



He looked at her and smiled.



"We are special," he replied, hugging his daughter tight. "You are my beautiful golden girl, and I love you."


-RM 1993

 

[BlurOfSerenity]

hey, all i was saying is that when you post in a thread about abortion and say how well adoption has worked in your family, it can be read as "it worked for us, it'll work for you too".
just the mere fact that a post about the continuing success with adoption was made in this thread indicates this to me.
i understand that successfully raising an adopted kid takes a lot of work. i wasn't trying to downplay what hard work it is, and when i used the word "luck", all i meant was "success" or "good experience". i didn't even realise until after it was pointed out that perhaps "luck" wasn't the best choice of words.

and i'm a pessimist? nah, it's just that the vast majority of adopted kids i've known or met were pretty much fucked up because their adoptive parents and orpanage situations were fucked up too. i'm just going by what i've seen and known.
and by that, i mean that adoption is not always the best choice.

i've explained all that the best i can at the moment.

 

[ResearchMonkey]

.....the vast majority of adopted kids i've known or met were pretty much fucked up because their adoptive parents and orpanage situations were fucked up too. i'm just going by what i've seen and known.
and by that, i mean that adoption is not always the best choice.

From the child point of view:

Fucked-up life - beats the hell out of dead.

(even thoo dead sometimes seems like a better choice, but that feeling ALWAYS passes)

My point is that adoption is an option, there are tens-of-thousands of people willing to take in children into their families.

My Generation and (most of) our brood. How many adoptees can you see in the kids photo?

 

[Gonz]

One, or none, bad experiences in adoption & it's better to KILL than to try again? Self-serving rubbish.

I too was adopted. I do not think about it, I can't change the past & it wasn't my choice. However, I have no desire whatsoever to abort myself now. I bet 99.9% of those who had really really bad experiences in adoption like their pathetic little painful life. It beats DEAD everytime.

 

[AlladinSane]

Why should abortion not be an option except when the egg donors life is on the line?

As cold as it may sound, the equation is simple here. You sacrifice the life that is not developed yet to spare the one that is already formed.

 

[Gonz]

An honest answer. Good for you.

 

[HomeLAN]

I'd like to point out that the first folks who pointed to personal experiences with adoption in this thread pointed out negative experiences. That opens the door to hearing positive ones, so,

and of course, just because your family has had luck with adoption, everyone else's should too, right?

cuts both ways.

 

[MrBishop]

Who the hell are you to decide who is sufficient to be alive?

I didn't decide...I'm stating some of the reasons why people abort. With modern medecine and surgical techniques, pretty much any birth defect can be survived.
Children born with their hearts outside their chest cavity, siamese twins, children without lungs and even children born without a working brain can live. Sicle-cell anemia, AIDS babies, Crack babies and on and on and on.
They can all live...sometimes for long periods of time, sometimes for painfully short periods of time. There was a thread a while back link, which talked about a woman and her husband who continued with the pregnancy of a pair of siamese twins despite knowing that the twins would die almost immediatly after birth. They had the babies because of their religious convictions, rushed to have the kids baptised and named...and the kids died.
Did they live a good life? Were the parents strengthened by watching their children being hooked up to machines, only to wither and die? Were they heartened by their religious conviction?

Here's the thing...they CHOSE not to abort. They live with that choice. Some chose to abort...they live with that choice as well.

Pro-choice means taking the decision to say yes or no out of the hands of others and into the hands of those whom the decision affects the most.

Would we be having this discussion if the GVT could tell you that you HAD to have an abortion? (like in China, for instance).

What I don't get is that most Conservatives don't like GVT intervention. They want people to make decisions and deal with the consequences...then, with the same breath that they don't want 'that' choice being made AND the mother/father still keep the responsibility and consequences for a choice that they couldn't make.

Pick a side. Either chose to allow people to make decisions and live with them or take away the choice but stop bitching and moaning when your tax dollar is going towards welfare, child support, orphanages, etc...cause you know that if the choice of abortion is gone...the priomary choice will be 'give the kid up for adoption'...and like RM said...

“Almost every third baby conceived in America is killed by abortion.” (1988 M&M report CDC)

That means a 33% increase or roughly 1.3million more orphans per year. Can your ecomony and your pocketbook deal with that one? (link - I did the math myself)

 

[MrBishop]

Almost forgot -

In 1992, there were 127,441 children adopted in the United States. (Flango and Flango, 1994)

link=http://naic.acf.hhs.gov/pubs/s_number.cfm

This number is relativly stable, and since there are no numbers for current years...we can assume that there has been a nominal increase. Lets say that there are now 150,000 adoptions per year. What are you going to do with the other 1.1Million kids?

 

[BlurOfSerenity]

bish, this is off topic, but i myself always thought it was funny in a sad way that excess animals in shelters are put to death, but that excess children in orphanages are not.
(which isn't to say that dogs and cats are on the same or greater level as humans, but rather to note how odd the power we weild over our furry friends is)

to keep the thread on topic, if anyone wants to continue this discussion they may start a new thread.

 

[Gonz]

Would we be having this discussion if the GVT could tell you that you HAD to have an abortion? (like in China, for instance)

Hell no. We'd be having a civil war.

 

[Winky]

That means a 33% increase or roughly 1.3million more orphans per year. Can your ecomony and your pocketbook deal with that one? (link - I did the math myself)

1.3 mil abortions a year that's a lot huh?

Dang Bish spoken like a true Liberal Kudo's to you.
(I am not my brothers flippin' keeper
much less a father to his worthless kids)
I have fathered ONE Kid and my economy and pocket book is doing fine. Sure if I'm responsible for the slug down the street that's squirtin' out brats then I must have a say about her reproductive habits lol

I say let's sterilize her now!