Ancient History

a13antichrist

New Member
Ah, man, how are we going to debate God? I edited my previous post, and replaced it with that last paragraph because I wasn't happy with what I had said, but since I don't have a lot of time I'll just throw it up and maybe it'll get it started. There are some points that need further clarification, but I'm sure that'll be settled down the road...
Yeah, I was still contemplating whether I’d pull the page up out of my temp. internet files when I got home.. ;)
This is the focus of the young/immature Christian. Most only have a need for God when they are in crisis. However, as I said earlier, this is hardly the extent of His power. Assuming God does exist, do you really think it would be simply to provide us with needless answers?
As I’ve mentioned, I’ve stopped worrying about disproving or proving the existence of God. I’ve instead looked at what God has to offer me. I have no need of anything he could provide[/b], and hence, the issue of whether or not he truly does exist becomes.. well, a non-issue. You could prove tomorrow that God does indeed exist – it would make no difference to me whatsoever, because he has nothing to offer me. Not because I don’t want to see it.

When I’m 80 & on my death-bed, & I’m contemplating the fact that (since God has been proven to exist) I’m about to go to hell, I’d probably all of a sudden have a need for God. And would he accept me then? Yes, he would. The fact that I could “cheat” God like this is just one more blow to His credibility.

More to the point, however, the idea of a God figure goes against the very fundamentals of my philosophical principles. It would mean that the mind is not the most influential factor of our existence. It would mean that I would be required to justify my thoughts to someone [-thing] else. And that would mean that my thoughts were not my own.
Take for example our human relationships. Why are you dating your girlfriend? Is it because society told you should have one, or does she provide you with something that you can live without, but complements you and makes your life a whole lot better. Further more, what does society tell you about a girlfriend vs. God? Having a relationship with a girl is cool, having a need/relationship with God is a sign of the weak. What do you focus on in your relationship? What you can get from her, or what you can do for her? God and a girlfriend are very different, but for all intensive purposes it is a valid analogy.
Why am I dating my gf?? Well my scanner should be arriving in a week or so.. ;)
Seriously though, that’s an interesting question. I have at times gone for months, even a couple of years at a time, without any ‘significant other’ in my life, and thought nothing of it. I am with my current gf because I feel she appreciates what I have to offer her. More importantly, she makes me feel good about being a human, in spite of everything about humanity that disgusts me. How does she do that? I don’t know. Maybe I’ll make that my next area of consideration. But you know, frankly I don’t think I want to. I think the fact that I don’t know is more significant than either of the other two.

Let me ask you something else. What is it about “sex with someone you love” that makes it so much better than just simple one-night stands? Could it be that once you get to that stage, you’ve stopped making love to your partner & you’re finally making love with him/her? Is it at all possible that once you get to that stage, you’re no longer concerned with dominating your partner, but instead are doing it as much for her as you are for you? Once you get to that stage, sex stops being a power thing. That’s why it’s so much better.

Now again. What would relationships be like if it was like that from the start?
There are people far more intellignent and in less need of help than you or I, do you think they worship God out of petty need?
I think they haven’t yet asked the right questions…
Proving the existence of God...
When you see someone with metastasized cancer that suddenly disappears, blind eyes that can see, and deaf ears that can hear, how do you rationalize these things? When you see someone who has spend their entire life in a wheelchair suddenly stand up and walk, what do you think?

God does not exist only to provide answers.
I’m sure you’re aware that that’s precisely what you’re enlisting him to do in those examples.. you don’t have any way of explaining what happened to cure those people, but by falling back on God you achieve an answer. Why?
This is where the mature role of Christianity begins to appear. You do not focus all your energy on your own concerns, but rather see the problems in the world, and do something about it. This is just one example, btw. Christianity is a growing process, we strive to become closer and closer to God. We are also human, and simply because you now call yourself a Christian doens't mean you're perfect. So yes, the 'idea' of God does provide us with the strength to persevere and carry on in hard times, but when you begin to look around at the 'proof' it becomes hard to regard Him as simply an idea.
I have yet to see any evidence (since “proof” implies something slightly stronger) of anything other than that he is simply an idea.
I agree with Props on this one. There are millions of people who believe God exists but have decided they have no need for them.
Okay, but that’s not the point I’m trying to make. To me, whether he exists or not is irrelevant since I have decided I have no need for him.
Do you think the other little froggies tell the new guy what he's supposed to do with that sexy little female in the corner? Yes, humans are much more advanced, but are we really born completely blank? What does it mean to be human?
Are you asking me what I think it means to be human? Or what I perceive society deems as human? Because you can rest assured, most people wouldn’t qualify under my definition.
Who told the caveman his shit stunk? Maybe the other cavemen liked the dirty ass smell. I guess what I'm trying to say is that simply because he thought he was superior doesn't make him superior. There is a difference between understanding/comprehending it and getting it. That difference is people don't get it until they agree with you.
To clarify this I’ll quote myself from above, regarding true friends:
As for the best friend thing, I didn’t say a true friend would “show him the light”. I said a true friend would make him aware that it’s up to him to find his own light, rather than borrowing society’s street-lamp. It’s not about making someone realise there is or isn’t a God; but rather helping them to be able to decide for themselves – truly for themselves and not simply because their parents said so. I’m perfectly happy with someone believing in God, provided they’re doing so for the right reasons. The wrong reasons are “well how else could it have happened?” and “well.. I just do”. We could very easily be “true” friends – the difference of opinion is irrelevant because it’s the qualitative state that’s important, not the quantitative value.
Getting it doesn’t mean agreeing with me. It means criticising everything that society throws in your face & coming up with your own perspective on what “life” is. It doesn’t matter if they disagree with everything single point I make, or even if they agree 100% with what society has told them, provided they’ve thrown out all the ideas to begin with & then decided they were right after all. It’s matter of realising that your reality is totally dependent on your thoughts and the way you apply them.
If we're going to continue this religious debate could you tell me what you believe about the supernatural? Purely scientific approach, just not God, what? Thanks...
What do I believe? I don’t believe in any extra-dimensional forces. I don’t believe in fairies, dragons, magic. I don’t believe in ghosts, demons, spirits, life after death, Judgement, reincarnation, kama. I don’t believe in unseen forces and I certainly don’t believe in a supreme being. I don't believe in the physical (or otherwise)existence of a "soul"..

..but I do believe in the concept.
I do believe that there’s no point being alive if you’re just going to live somebody else’s thoughts. I believe that outside of physical certainties (H2SO4 will make a hole in your shoe), nothing is either true or false, but thinking makes it so. [Not the exact quote but I like that better. ] I believe that anyone can fundamentally change their perspective on life in a matter of seconds, provided they give themselves the chance. I believe you can change your own world as easily as you can punch yourself in the eye (easy, but not that easy ;)). I believe you can change someone else’s world if that person is ready to have their world changed (my gf has changed my world – but don’t jump to any conclusions). I also believe that you don’t have a chance in hell if someone isn’t ready to have his/her world changed.
props: Yeah, CDS is ideally suited to not catch flak for being a gentle loving father but do we need to increase our reps to earn that? :(
Unfortunately, yes.
I think it’s great that you’ve taken on a new life-view involving an encompassing of what is traditionally non-masculine. Think about how much better you life is because of it. Now what I’m trying to do is show people how much better the world will be once everyone makes that realisation.
 

unclehobart

New Member
I feel like I'm watching a dissertation on the tele. Is there a direct question that I should be tackling, or is it just a mid-stream contemplative debate meant to be utterly digested in the passive? Is it a conversation of yours? The other person in the debate would be? Is this the full quote or a portion? Where did it originate?
 

MrBishop

Well-Known Member
A13 - sounds like an interesting debate, but it's a wee bit out of context. I'm assuming that the quoted material is someone else's text and your replies (save one) is unquoted.

or is this something dredged up from a JJR archive somewhere?? Hence "Ancient History"

*MrBishop joins Unc in the perplexed zone.
 

Leslie

Communistrator
Staff member
not JJRs...

um. I gather he's having that convo with some pirates (who by the way went and hid on me so I can't find em anymore :( ) and wishes to also have it here?

I'm just grateful I don't take myself that seriously anymore.
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
The pirates disappeared...up & quit paying the bills, they did, leaving several of us in a lurch
 

Leslie

Communistrator
Staff member
Gonz said:
The pirates disappeared...up & quit paying the bills, they did, leaving several of us in a lurch
must be IRC then? it's definitely a pirate.
 

a13antichrist

New Member
That's about 3 years old, just some stuff I came across while sorting out all the crap over my past 5 My Documents migrations...
 

Winky

Well-Known Member
It would mean that I would be required to justify my thoughts to someone [-thing] else.

There is indeed NO God!
But you are still in need of a standard to which you must hold the effacy of your thoughts.

Unless you are a Liberal of course :lol:
 

Winky

Well-Known Member
Well if he got a hold of TG's rack,
I'm sure that was the high point
of his widdle life. (so far heh heh)
 
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