Another war we're losing....

Discussion in 'The Real World' started by markjs, Aug 20, 2007.

  1. markjs Friend of Bill W. Banned

    Despite the "war on drugs", profits are up. There are more drugs available at better prices than ever before.
  2. unclehobart Cynic PhD New Member

    The war on drugs can be won in less than a week. We just need to carpet bomb, defoliate, and nuke the major cocoa and dope growing regions of south and central america.

    That or we just legalize it and tax the bejesus out of it. Either way, its time to end the multi-billion dollar debacle.
  3. markjs Friend of Bill W. Banned

    You'd have to legalize it, because methamphetamine, which is said by many to be the biggest threat is chemically produced. As well if the United States took it upon itself to eradicate poppies and coaca plants, we'd quickly have a word war on our hands and we would be considered, (and rightly so I might add) the "bad guys".
  4. catocom Person of Interest Well-Known Member

    eh, if they could do away with it, people'd just huff gas.
    They'll never do away with that.
  5. markjs Friend of Bill W. Banned


    The more I think about it the more preposterous it sounds! Seriously can you imagine if we actually did bomb and defoliate most of the farmland of several nations of the world? It's an act as monsterous as it is unthinkable! Not even considering the loss of innocent life (and for the most part the people who farm poppies and coca plants are just simple farmers eeking out an existance, where it's the people who process the stuff into drugs that are the big guys making the fat cash), there's the fact that we can't simply make decisions like that for other sovereign nations. And should we destroy all that farmland, what the hell would we expect them to do with it then? One of the primary things at issue here is that they are trying to irradicate poppy farms in Afghanistan but yet they give the farmers no alternative? What are they supposed to do instead? Starve?!? Live on the streets and beg?!? Fortunately even this administration has more sense than that.....Legalization is simply the only real alternative.
  6. Gonz Founding Member and Vast molṑn labé

    Legalize it all. Thins the herd.
  7. markjs Friend of Bill W. Banned


    Gonz and I agree, on anything at all?

    This just in:

    Hell Frozen Over!
    Film at 11

    [IMG]
  8. Cerise Well-Known Member

  9. Luis G Natural disaster <i><b>Problemator</b></i>

    How about making it illegal to consume, own and/or transport drugs? 5 years in prison should be enough to make junkies quit their habits. ;)
  10. Gonz Founding Member and Vast molṑn labé

    It already is. It doesn't.

    The easist places to get drugs in the US is within the prison walls.
  11. unclehobart Cynic PhD New Member

    Transportation and manufacture are already felonies here that can land you as much as 30 years in prison... and as Gonz said... it means nothing. Perhaps a few 1000 fast track federal executions on the dealer level might get through to them. It would at least thin the herd of your highly experienced drug dealers and force them to be replaced with a younger inexperienced breed.

    I figured the new clauses of homeland security already allowed for the g-men to already grab you off the street at random, give you a drug test, and then execute you on the spot if they found more than caffeine in your system... or at least it seems that way.
  12. unclehobart Cynic PhD New Member

    The first rule of Machiavellian politics is: You do not talk about Fight Club.

    The second rule of Machiavellian politics: There is no such thing as an innocent.
  13. chcr We're dancing for once! Too cute for words

    I keep sayin'...
  14. SouthernN'Proud Fighting oppressive Warshinton gubmint since 1861 Southern Discomfort

    No. Self control is the ideal way. We don't have a drug problem if people control themselves and stay off the shit to begin with. Why should I legalize something (a generic) you can't control? So (a generic) you can get (a generic) your hands on more of it more easily? Dream on. Following that logic, we wouldn't have so may pedophiles afoot if we'd legalize sex with three month old infants. Legalizing the source of the problem only changes the statistics on paper. We'd have as many or more hopped out dope heads driving in traffic if we legalize. Not a solution in my book.
  15. tonksy Hitting the egg nog New Member

    So you expect the unwashed masses to control their urges? Ha ha...thanks for the chuckle.
    I am a proponent of legalization only because I am sick of tax dollars paying to, at the very least, pick these people up and dust them off and send them right back out to continue the cycle or, at the most, set them up for a term of years in a penal institution where they don't have to earn their way.
    Whatever happened to "If you can't handle yourself it's your ass"? You screw around and lose control you should be out your money, your house, your family and then maybe you'll realize why the shit's so discouraged in the first place. Everyone knows that any recreational drug is bad for you. Every. Single. One.
    I used to smoke pot. I loved smoking pot. It's bad for you. I still liked it. I also got my ass out of bed everyday and went to work, earned money, took care of my kids, was part of a happy, well adjusted relationship etc. In a nutshell, I handled my shit. I was a big girl about it. The problem comes when people lose control or never had it to begin with.
  16. SouthernN'Proud Fighting oppressive Warshinton gubmint since 1861 Southern Discomfort

    Exactly my point. I won't say I've never done it. But I missed not one minute of work because of it. I missed not payment one because of it. I stopped doing it when I wanted, for reasons of my own, without problem, hesitation, or regret number one. As I said, if you can't control yourself, don't ask me to make your problem legal just so the numbers look better on paper and to make obtaining it easier.

    Legalizing drugs only helps the addicted get their fix easier. The impact it would have on the typical community would far outweigh any perceived benefit to the overwhelming masses not addicted. Where are their rights in this discussion? Should law abiding grandmothers have to swerve around some junkie on legal heroin in traffic? I say not only no but a resounding hell no.

    If a person can't control themselves, we have places for them. Places with bars on the windows and razor wire around the perimeter. I'd far rather build more of them than watch my family get killed by some loser who can't stay off cocaine and decides today is the day to drive head first into an oncoming car. But maybe that's just me.

    For the record, I feel exactly the same way about alcoholics. Can't stay home or get a designated driver or a cab when you go out? Welcome to the Iron Bar Motel. Group showers commence in 20 minutes.
  17. SouthernN'Proud Fighting oppressive Warshinton gubmint since 1861 Southern Discomfort

    And it truly is sad that we as a society have digressed to the point that personal accountability seems too much to ask. Funny, other countries don't seem to have that problem. You don't hear of a whole lot of Arabic junkies surviving their first brush with the law. As a result, they don't have a high drug problem.
  18. chcr We're dancing for once! Too cute for words

    Actually, the anti-tobacco folks have shown us the answer to the drug problem. We as a society are either too stubborn or too stupid or both to accept an answer that history shows will work. :shrug:

    Edit: Note that, in case you've forgotten, it is still legal to grow, sell (albeit to adults), possess and use tobacco, easily one of the most dangerous drugs known.
  19. Dave Well-Known Member

    one of the more ironic aspects of the national push to raise the drinking age to 21 is that it has become increasingly easier for kids to get their hands on drugs.
    an additional irony is that Oxycontin, a legal drug, is one of the more popular drugs with the kids around here. this drug has a 100% graduation rate to heroin use. xanax, percocets, valium, klonopin and vicodins are available on the street.
    there are a lot of addicts around here that are prescribed benzos and other controlled substances such as ritalin for various psychiatric resons. a lot of them are also on methadone.
    most of the detox centers provide medications to lessen the effects of withdrawal.
    i've lost count of the number of heroin OD that have come in. they come in dead for all practical purposes and we give them a hit of narcan and they wake up and get pissed off at us because we killed their buzz. chronic addicts and alcoholics come in all the time to get into detox when they either get thrown out of where ever they are living or when they the cost is getting to be too much.
    cant forget the drug seekers that go from hospital to hospital to get narcotics for complaints of back pain or abdominal pain, two conditions that are almost impossible to say doesnt exist. getting them blacklisted requires the cooperation of multiple physicians and hospitals. i'm sure the lawyers have to get involved too. reduce the exposure from the personal injury sharks.

    the "war on drugs" is a joke.
  20. markjs Friend of Bill W. Banned


    Would it surprise you to know I held a job the entire time I was shooting meth? In fact I worked 7 days a week 365 days a year, for over a year and it wasn't until after I cleaned up that I lost that job (psycosis induced by coming off meth). Would it surprise you to know I never stole anything to support my habbit? Usually I fixed the dope world's computers and got paid in dope, or "muled" (because I was trustworthy). In fact the only crime that I got caught for and was any "danger to society" because of, was driving under the influence, and really driving under the influence of meth isn't so much an issue till sleep deprivation came into the equation. So before you make sweeping generalizations about what every addict is like, perhaps check the facts. All the same it destroyed my life in other ways. What is legal can be taxed and controlled. And crime commited while under then influence or because of addiction would still be crime. Addiction itself is a healthcare issue and should be treated as such.

    For and addict or alcoholic there is no such thing as "control" while using or drinking, and any semblance of it is illusory and fleeting. It simply isn't possible. The only option is treatemnt and abstinance. It is a disease, an allergy to alcohol or drugs if you will. A full 10% of the population has this affliction, many of us with incredible talents and abilities. Would you throw that segment of society away? Prohibition of alcohol was tried and we all know how well that worked. The primary argument I hear against legalization is that more people would do it. Perhaps more people would try it initially, but not signifigantly more would become addicts than now. It would also take it out of the hands of the criminal element. There wouldn't be so much profit to be had and criminals would turn to other things. Al that money we spend trying to enforce anti drug laws could be spent on anti drug education and treatemnt.

    Unless you have experienced addiction yourself you cannot know what it's about like an addict can. That is precisely why AA and NA are the most sucessful means of treating the disease. An addict or an alcoholic isn't going to relate to some authority figure telling them what to do when that person doesn't understand....Hasn't "been there".

    *handonhip

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