Auschwitz: a myth?
- Thread starter Luis G
- Start date
HeXp£Øi±
Well-Known Member
When i originally decided to look into the holocaust i began from the basis that one could pile up a couple hundred dead bodies, film them and speak/write convincingly as if they were tens of thousands representing the hundreds. Photographic proof is just not enough(for me) in this day and age.
madrin
New Member
Interestingly, Hex....at Nuremberg there was the contention that in any of the photographic evidence one could never actually account for more than a fairly small number of distinguishable bodies...
...thus the "other documentary evidence" including that of prisoners and employees. Some of the most compelling evidence came in the form of testimony by political prisoners who were actually disgraced NAZI party members...which of course further fueled fires of manufacturing evidence out of revenge...
But there was always compelling evidence overall that there had been genocide on the scale of millions, and that there had been deep conspiracy to commit it. Note that I make no judgement here...it's simply fact..it happened, and people would do well to actually pick up books and read about it like you have. I personally have over 35 books and thousands of pages of evidentiary documents just on Nuremberg alone....and I own and have read just over 250 books on German WW2 participation in general...you could say I'm interested
In the end no one will ever know exactly how many perished in the death camps. The number may well be under 6 million(Jews)...my own research indicates that's likely to be the case, but as I mentioned before.....2, 3, or something under 6 million doesn't make it any less of a "holocaust" .
MADrin
...thus the "other documentary evidence" including that of prisoners and employees. Some of the most compelling evidence came in the form of testimony by political prisoners who were actually disgraced NAZI party members...which of course further fueled fires of manufacturing evidence out of revenge...
But there was always compelling evidence overall that there had been genocide on the scale of millions, and that there had been deep conspiracy to commit it. Note that I make no judgement here...it's simply fact..it happened, and people would do well to actually pick up books and read about it like you have. I personally have over 35 books and thousands of pages of evidentiary documents just on Nuremberg alone....and I own and have read just over 250 books on German WW2 participation in general...you could say I'm interested
In the end no one will ever know exactly how many perished in the death camps. The number may well be under 6 million(Jews)...my own research indicates that's likely to be the case, but as I mentioned before.....2, 3, or something under 6 million doesn't make it any less of a "holocaust" .
MADrin
HeXp£Øi±
Well-Known Member
There's something about the way the Nazis went about it... Take the last few genocides in Africa. People were raped and butchered with machetties by the hundreds of thousands or millions, but when it comes to the Nazis there's something more.
As if mass murder weren't enough the Nazis went and turned it into an industrial process.
Disturbing beyond words...
As if mass murder weren't enough the Nazis went and turned it into an industrial process.
Disturbing beyond words...
madrin
New Member
...well, it makes sense, actually....
...Germany from 1935 to 1943 was almost a caricature of indutrialization. It existed...in most cases it worked...but it was just....not.......natural?
....part of the "big show" if you will...so why NOT apply it to the process of extermination?
The stationary chambers were direct offshoots of mobile killing chambers which used CO (exhaust) as the killing agent, but SS brass considered that method to be inhumane and inefficient...so they went with camp chambers and two iterations of Zyklon gas...which WOULD have been efficient were it not for....
...well...now we're just getting into areas most people would not like to discuss, but in any case there is supreme horror and irony in the whole thing....
But I have to say, it doesn't disturb me any more or less than your example of the African genocides...or any other genocide. It is what it is...mass killing.
MADrin
...Germany from 1935 to 1943 was almost a caricature of indutrialization. It existed...in most cases it worked...but it was just....not.......natural?
....part of the "big show" if you will...so why NOT apply it to the process of extermination?
The stationary chambers were direct offshoots of mobile killing chambers which used CO (exhaust) as the killing agent, but SS brass considered that method to be inhumane and inefficient...so they went with camp chambers and two iterations of Zyklon gas...which WOULD have been efficient were it not for....
...well...now we're just getting into areas most people would not like to discuss, but in any case there is supreme horror and irony in the whole thing....
But I have to say, it doesn't disturb me any more or less than your example of the African genocides...or any other genocide. It is what it is...mass killing.
MADrin
I'm not gonna read it. I've read similar & find them pathetically disturbing. Re-writing history is a fundamental rule of communism & anarchy. You'd be surprised how many things "never happened".
My father in law was a German POW, in Poland & after 50 years, he's finnally beginning to speak of his experience. Between the death march & 16 months in the camp, let me tell you, the German/Nazi military was more than capable of destroying 6 million Jews.
My father in law was a German POW, in Poland & after 50 years, he's finnally beginning to speak of his experience. Between the death march & 16 months in the camp, let me tell you, the German/Nazi military was more than capable of destroying 6 million Jews.
Love to hear some of those stories Gonz.
paul_valaru
100% Pure Canadian Beef
BUMP, it's a few months later, but I have this irresistable urge to thow my two cents into this quagmire of contrivesy.
I have spoken to people who where at aushwitz, and other camps, they are not lies, nor are they exagerated, they are the extreme example of what horrible things humans can do to other humans.
You have peole who want to deny the holocaust, or say the reports are exagirated, but once you have talked to these people who watched there families died, or to people who fed the cremetoriums (it was that or die yourself) you know however unbelievible it sounds, these things happened.
Holocaust deniers fall into 2 main catagories
the anti-semetic, how believe it is a plot to foward our global domination goals.
and the scared, they can't believe somthing like this could happen, and people new about it and did nothing.
the one thing they have in common is ignorance.
To deny it, is to let history repeat itself.
and there have been other genocidal attempt in "recent" history (I mean last 150 years)
to forget any of them is to repeat them.
the one thing theat made the holocaust stand out was the orderlyness of it all, the precision. The fact that people knew, yet did nothing, or even refused to let escapees into their countries, and sent them back to die, that is what makes it hard for people to accept that it happened.
I have spoken to people who where at aushwitz, and other camps, they are not lies, nor are they exagerated, they are the extreme example of what horrible things humans can do to other humans.
You have peole who want to deny the holocaust, or say the reports are exagirated, but once you have talked to these people who watched there families died, or to people who fed the cremetoriums (it was that or die yourself) you know however unbelievible it sounds, these things happened.
Holocaust deniers fall into 2 main catagories
the anti-semetic, how believe it is a plot to foward our global domination goals.
and the scared, they can't believe somthing like this could happen, and people new about it and did nothing.
the one thing they have in common is ignorance.
To deny it, is to let history repeat itself.
and there have been other genocidal attempt in "recent" history (I mean last 150 years)
to forget any of them is to repeat them.
the one thing theat made the holocaust stand out was the orderlyness of it all, the precision. The fact that people knew, yet did nothing, or even refused to let escapees into their countries, and sent them back to die, that is what makes it hard for people to accept that it happened.
paul_valaru
100% Pure Canadian Beef
chcr said:
I hope you are wrong, I hope the world learnt it's lesson.
and I hope if it came down to it, all the Jewish people I grew up with will fufill the pledge they made to never let it happen again.
the entire islamic portion of the world now is suffering scrutiny, and suspition, based on the actions of a few, and the is the worst kind of racism (religionism??)
to be a terroist doesn't make you muslim (red october, baader meinhoff gang)
to be muslim doesn't make you a terrorist (99.999999999999999999% of the islamic world)
chcr
Too cute for words
paul_valaru said:
All true, but how many Israelis would be happy to see it happen. I doubt it would be anything like a majority, but a signiicant percentage in any case (not entirely unjustified either). As for the christian west, they've demonstrated time and time again that they simply are not intelligent enough to learn from prior mistakes. Not that the muslims do either, understand.
paul_valaru
100% Pure Canadian Beef
chcr said:
every faction has it's own radical element, but hopefully those people won't be in control.
I mean even isreal had it's own terrorist group, back in the day under british rule, they blew up a hotel, but some consider them heroes (back to the point of view)
a large majority of isrealies are decendants of people who survived and escaped europe during the 40's, hope fully there battle cry of "never again!" will be taken up, and they will act to defend the innocent, like they always said they will.
paul_valaru
100% Pure Canadian Beef
chcr said:
well, he ain't great (just in my opinion)
but he is no radical, he may hae some extremem veiws, but he hasn't tried to outlaw gays, oppress via religion.
we know he is christian, and doens' like gay marriage, but so far he hasn't abused his powers in those ways.
God forbid you had a falwell, or a farikan as president
Gotnolegs
Active Member
This is the first time I've read this thread, I found it quite interesting. It seems to me that the argument against the holocaust hinges upon the fact that there are holes in the evidence given by the jews that "survived".
Now correct me if I'm wrong here but this was 60 years ago. I have troube remembering exactly what I did last week! I have spoken to many ex POWs from WWII (I used to work in healthcare) and I would honestly say that the majority suffered from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder in one form or another.
If you take a group of people and kill enough of them there will never be enough evidence to convict you. I have heard enough of this crap from neo nazi groups in the UK. To my discust I used to live in a town that elected a meber of Combat18 (the 18 refers to Hitler's initials and their place in the alphabet) to local government. Using his descriptions one of my best friends is a "Paki" and should be deported regardles of the fact that he is as English as I am.
Anyone that attempts to justify the holocaust and the atrocities of the Nazi regime does not warrant the time of day imho. Not that I am not fully aware which country's forces invented the concept of concentration camps...
Now correct me if I'm wrong here but this was 60 years ago. I have troube remembering exactly what I did last week! I have spoken to many ex POWs from WWII (I used to work in healthcare) and I would honestly say that the majority suffered from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder in one form or another.
If you take a group of people and kill enough of them there will never be enough evidence to convict you. I have heard enough of this crap from neo nazi groups in the UK. To my discust I used to live in a town that elected a meber of Combat18 (the 18 refers to Hitler's initials and their place in the alphabet) to local government. Using his descriptions one of my best friends is a "Paki" and should be deported regardles of the fact that he is as English as I am.
Anyone that attempts to justify the holocaust and the atrocities of the Nazi regime does not warrant the time of day imho. Not that I am not fully aware which country's forces invented the concept of concentration camps...