Climate change natural says new study

markjs

Banned
And the last point I can really make is, being as climate and pollution studies are multi generational problems how long do you propose we continue on fossil fuels which are proven pollutants? The richest men of this world have to tumble off their pedestal, it's an inevitability. I hope I live to see it, but as well I hope it's not too painful for the innocents, of which we all are, even those of you who foolishly back the money men.
 

ResearchMonkey

Well-Known Member
Concensus - not

Money - GW is a BIG money, just like oil.

Explain the ice ages and other variations of temp over the history.

Maybe, just maybe GW is a process that has happened before, maybe it serves a purpose we don't understand. Preventing it, IF its actually occuring, could be devastating.

Volcannism, CO2, H2o vapor, methane, changes, time, ..... it all happens naturally.

Get off the aganda at look at it.
 

markjs

Banned
See you do what we all do, but you so it to a greater degree than many RM, you ass/u/me, and make an ass out of us both. I don't march in environmental parades, I don't spike trees, I have not even watched Gore's movie, I just care about more than right now, me, mine, and my money like your kind does. I may be wrong, but I tend to think that's more of an asset than a liability.
 

jimpeel

Well-Known Member
For the same reason you are so willing to believe whatever is told you.

I don't believe all that is told to me. I understand that the temp of the world has only gone up 1 degree on average in the last 10 years. I understand that people are jumping on this "green" bandwagon because Leo DiCaprio did and not understanding what they are truley doing. I thought that I had said that. Did you read that?

What I don't get (other than the reasoning the Prof gave, which is a very good one) is why it is such a big deal to convince everyone to stop their efforts. Some of us are making a true effort wihtout listening to all the hype. Some of us are not just blindly following this GW bandwagon and ignoring the political issues that face our world. Again, I thought I had said that too...hmm...funny how one only reads what they want to.

If people want to make a concious effort to tread lightly on the earth as all of the enviro issues we face are ultimatly linked, why bother them? As long as we aren't boosting our own career on Oprah and have an agreement with Toyota to sell more hybrid cars, I am not sure what the big deal is.

I do the things that I do not because I was told and I mindlessly followed. I do the things I do because using less is a guarenteed way to help our problems on the earth whether they are natural or man made. Who is going to tell me that using less gas is wrong because there is no such thing as man made GW? If GW is natural, what is wrong with me trying not to add to it?

I am not arguing the study. There very well could be truth to the study. Everything we know as fact to this day has had more than one theory behind it. Remember when people were convinced the earth was flat? I am only trying to figure out why the agenda to convince everyone that nothing needs to be done about GW is so important. Even if the temp of the world rises only one degree every 10 years. In 500 years, that is going to be serious. Why are you trying to tell me that "crossing that bridge if/when we come to it" is the best policy?"

Okay. Let me try this.

When I was in grade school in the 1950s we were told that the Earth was warming. This was due to the fact that we are still coming out of the last major ice age 16,000 years ago.

Since that time, we have had several warming and cooling perionds which were brought to being without the help of mankind.

Of the warming periods, several have been higher than what we are experiencing now. At one point, wine grapes were grown in England.

The polar bears survived the warming then; but we are told that they are going to drown into extinction this time.

It has now been proven beyond any doubt whatsoever that CO2 LAGS warming yet the GW fanatics still insist that it is CO2 which is driving GW.

More and more scientists are beginning to question the validity of AGW and are calling for further study; yet the GW fanatics continue to claim that there is a consensus and the debate is over.

The GW fanatics are making big bucks from GW and that is what this is about. GW has become a big business and it will continue to grow. Global carbon taxes, the UN wanting Kyoto for everyone, the economies of whole developed nations going in the toilet, trillions spent on something over which we have no control; and for what? Power. Raw unbridled power.

I have no problem with anyone "treading lightly" upon the Earth but that is a personal choice. I do not try to get anyone to drive what I drive; or live like I live; or eat like I eat. I live my life and I leave other people alone.

Does anyone believe that banning the Edison incandescent light bulb will do a single thing to stem GW? We are told that the Compact Flourescent Lamps are far superior and less polluting. What they do IS pollute the Earth -- the real Earth -- with mercury.

Does anyone, besides stupid politicians, believe that ethanol is the answer to petroleum fuels? Have you seen your food bill lately? That is being driven by ethanol. Even beer is affected.

Milk, eggs, meat, chicken, sodas, etc. are all on the rise due to the ethanol craze. Don't forget to take the "Seek & Find" test.

As developed industrialized nations are being required to cut back on their economies to reduce global warming, developing nations like India and China, which have about half the world's population, have no controls at all through the Kyoto Treaty.

China is building two coal powered power plants per week. The pollution from those plants will have global consequences.

How about India. They are also placing their faith in coal fired power plants.

In the meantime, the economies of the developed countries are in peril.

The fact that there has been absolutely no warming since 1998 is also causing scientists to believe that there is a reversal coming.

Check out this page and see a running clock on how much Kyoto has cost us and how much potential temperature savings that amount has purchased. Is it worth 100 TRILLION dollars to theoretically reduce the global temperature by 1 °C?

Even the unflappable Brits have stated that to simply stop -- not reverse -- GW would cost fully HALF of the world's GDP; or about €13 TRILLION.

It all comes down to this:

How much of your wealth, and the wealth of your progeny, are you willing to spend?

How many of your freedoms and liberties, and those of your progeny, are you willing to sacrifice?

Are you willing to live under global governance; and what that will bring to your progeny?

If reducing GW would mean that your progeny would live in slavery; would you believe that that would be a fair price to pay?
 

markjs

Banned
And don't be deluded RM, the 12 step programs have made me a better person, and perhaps more likely to admit and point out where we agree, but if anything it has made my "liberal" convictions deeper and stronger.

There are some areas of politics I am pretty right wing on, just that they rarely get talked about here, and I am less passionate about them for reasons too complex to bother trying to explain.
 

jimpeel

Well-Known Member
Err on the side of caution!

No disclaimers about if if it's inconvenient for me or it takes 1% of my paycheck to save the future!

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!

They may be platitudes, but they ain't any less true.....

It's grade school stuff really people....

And same should go for conservatives cuz I guess y'all do attend the same schools as the human race does for some odd reason....

Simply answer the following questions and we will see how much "doing something" is worth to you:

Is it worth $100 trillion to reduce GW by 1° C?

Is it worth one half of the entire world's GDP -- €13 trillion -- just to STOP GW?

How much of your wealth, and the wealth of your progeny, are you willing to spend? You say 1% is okay. How about 90%?

How many of your freedoms and liberties, and those of your progeny, are you willing to sacrifice?

Are you willing to live under global governance; and what that will bring to your progeny?

If reducing GW would mean that your progeny would live in slavery; would you believe that that would be a fair price to pay?
 

markjs

Banned
Simply answer the following questions and we will see how much "doing something" is worth to you:

OK 'peel, don't forget I will not debate you, but I will answer your questions, just cuz I am sick, bored, and well count yerself lucky!

Is it worth $100 trillion to reduce GW by 1° C?

Yes

Is it worth one half of the entire world's GDP -- €13 trillion -- just to STOP GW?

Possibly, I am not educated enough on the matter to say. Nobody is, since we haven't had but four or five generations maximum to seriously consider the idea.

How much of your wealth, and the wealth of your progeny, are you willing to spend? You say 1% is okay. How about 90%?

Wealth? What's that? If I can get by, provide for me and mine, and be happy, sure, I'll bite. Money is the root of all evil, I try my best to avoid being too attached to it. The world could mostly take a lesson from me on that.

How many of your freedoms and liberties, and those of your progeny, are you willing to sacrifice?

Oh the freedom to dump my motor oil in the backyard? The freedom to burn plastics in my burn barrel, The freedom to have enough money and power in the oil business to have my government go to war for me to keep me profitable? Perhaps freedoms you may enjoy, not I, so why don't you replace this with an actually relevant question? Or perhaps grow a conscience?

Are you willing to live under global governance; and what that will bring to your progeny?

Yes, I believe the rest of the world could learn from us, we from them, and we'd all end up the better for it in the long run! Again though, I am not educated enough to answer definitively, and neither are you or anyone else for that matter. Since it has never been tried peaceably, nobody can know. Fact is, it WILL happen, it is an inevitability, unless we let greed and the raping of the planet and it's people and resources to extinct us. Suffice to say though I am open minded enough to see that the American way is not the right way, nor is anyone else's. We all need to see what others have tried and go with things that work and drop things that don't, or else face the extinction conservative politics would most likely bring about unchecked. Americans arrogance is what is going to end this society. It is in it's decline, because we are like a broken record, and socially, economically and politically we refuse to embrace new CD technology and further .mp3 technology, to fix that beloved old LP. Conservative politics if unchecked, are inherently a dead end. Again, a fairly irrelevant question.

If reducing GW would mean that your progeny would live in slavery; would you believe that that would be a fair price to pay?

NONSENSE!!! PARANOIA!!! Do you hear voices? Are THEY out to get YOU? Not even worth my time! Your in slavery now, you work at Walmart! Wake up dude before it kills you!
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
I'd be happy to see another 4°-5°F. Imagine, Canada getting into the world food market as a supplier.
 

ResearchMonkey

Well-Known Member
I'd be happy to see another 4°-5°F. Imagine, Canada getting into the world food market as a supplier.

Get some livable weather in the higher Canadian woods and I couldn't think of a more beautiful place to live.

...just reverse the 9 months of ice and two months habital weather. I'ld be up there pronto.
 

jimpeel

Well-Known Member
OK 'peel, don't forget I will not debate you, but I will answer your questions, just cuz I am sick, bored, and well count yerself lucky!

Lucky me.


Have you any concept of 100 trillion dollars? $100,000,000,000,000

Let's do an excercise.

  • There is a train.
  • The train is made up of cars which are each 40 feet long.
  • Each car is loaded with 40 tons of gold.
  • Gold closed today at $825.20/troy oz.
  • There are 12 troy oz in one troy pound which is .822857 avoirdupois pound.
  • There are 29,166.67 troy oz in one short ton.
  • One short ton is worth $24,068,333.33
  • Each car carrying 40 tons is worth $962,733,333.20
  • The number of cars in the train is 103,871.
  • The total length of the train is 787 miles.
  • The train passes a point at one car per second.
  • 40 feet per second is 27.28 miles per hour.

It will take the train 72 days, or 2.4 months, to finish passing that point.

Possibly, I am not educated enough on the matter to say. Nobody is, since we haven't had but four or five generations maximum to seriously consider the idea.

When I was in grammar school in the 1950s we were taught that the Earth was warming as we were still coming out of the ice age 16,000 years ago. Warming wasn't a problem until it was politicized recently. Remember, it was just thirty years ago that these same scientists were predicting global cooling and a coming mini ice age.

PLEASE read THIS ARTICLE and let me know what you think.

Wealth? What's that? If I can get by, provide for me and mine, and be happy, sure, I'll bite. Money is the root of all evil, I try my best to avoid being too attached to it. The world could mostly take a lesson from me on that.

Ted Kozinski thought the same thing. He ended up living in a paper shack in the woods.

Oh the freedom to dump my motor oil in the backyard? The freedom to burn plastics in my burn barrel, The freedom to have enough money and power in the oil business to have my government go to war for me to keep me profitable? Perhaps freedoms you may enjoy, not I, so why don't you replace this with an actually relevant question? Or perhaps grow a conscience?

If that is all you can come up with as freedom then you are very cynical.

How about the freedom to call the president a name without storm troopers kicking in your door at 3am?

The freedom to ride that motorcycle any time you please?

The freedom to attend meetings without it being declared an unlawful assembly?

The freedom to choose your profession instead of it being assigned by a government toady?

Yes, I believe the rest of the world could learn from us, we from them, and we'd all end up the better for it in the long run! Again though, I am not educated enough to answer definitively, and neither are you or anyone else for that matter. Since it has never been tried peaceably, nobody can know. Fact is, it WILL happen, it is an inevitability, unless we let greed and the raping of the planet and it's people and resources to extinct us. Suffice to say though I am open minded enough to see that the American way is not the right way, nor is anyone else's. We all need to see what others have tried and go with things that work and drop things that don't, or else face the extinction conservative politics would most likely bring about unchecked. Americans arrogance is what is going to end this society. It is in it's decline, because we are like a broken record, and socially, economically and politically we refuse to embrace new CD technology and further .mp3 technology, to fix that beloved old LP. Conservative politics if unchecked, are inherently a dead end. Again, a fairly irrelevant question.

You cannot rape a planet. Everything that ever was still exists on the planet. Maybe it is in a different form than you might want but it is still here.

To try what others have tried is doomed to failure as they are all dead societies/governments/political ideologies. None of them have worked so none of them will work. There is this saying that "Socialism has not yet worked because the right people have not yet been in charge."

I didn't quite get the CD/mp3/LP juxtaposition.

NONSENSE!!! PARANOIA!!! Do you hear voices? Are THEY out to get YOU? Not even worth my time! Your in slavery now, you work at Walmart! Wake up dude before it kills you!

You apparently know as much about true slavery as you do about $100 trillion. Slaves do not earn wages and I make a proper wage at Wal-Mart.
 

jimpeel

Well-Known Member
Oh, no! More global warming!

I guess we can add Denver to the list of places mentioned in POST #94

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/14922538/detail.html

Denver Breaks Record For Snowfall On Christmas DayPrevious Record Dates Back To 1894

Russell Haythorn, 7NEWS Reporter

DENVER -- It certainly made for quite the winter wonderland on this Christmas Day, and provided quite the surprise to residents.

“I think we expected a few flurries and there's probably eight or nine inches now. It's just like Norman Rockwell," said Denver resident Adam Haynes.

Denver officially recorded 7.8 inches of snow on Christmas Day.

...

The storm dropped the most snowfall in Denver on Christmas Day in more than 100 years. The previous all-time record for snowfall on Dec. 25 in Denver was 6.2 inches, recorded in handwritten records in 1894.

Meteorologists say the latest storm boosted Denver's December snow total above 15 inches -- about 7 inches above average for the month.

<more>
 

SouthernN'Proud

Southern Discomfort
jimpeel said:
The GW fanatics are making big bucks from GW and that is what this is about. GW has become a big business and it will continue to grow. Global carbon taxes, the UN wanting Kyoto for everyone, the economies of whole developed nations going in the toilet, trillions spent on something over which we have no control; and for what? Power. Raw unbridled power.

Close, but not quite.

It's all about less prosperous nations picking the pockets of the US in the name of global warming guilt. And it's working. The average American citizen can be hoodwinked into a guilt reaction in less than ten minutes. I can prove it if so inclined. So all these other nations gather to guilt trip us out of monetary contributions and self imposed sanctions in the name of GW, brought to you by that lovable buffoon Al Gore, and the idiots line up to support it so they can feeeeeeeeeeel good...never minding or even aware that in so doing they are slitting their very economic throats.

Course, twelve years or so down the road these same sheep start bleating about how high a gallon of gas is, and milk prices are ridiculous, and oh my goodness have you seen the price of ___________ lately? Blithely unaware that they brought it upon themselves. Kinda like voting for certain people then wondering why taxes are out of control.

Idiots.
 
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