Hamas claims majority in new Palestinian elections

[catocom]

Gonz, if we (the world) still still went by the spoils of war thing, Kuwait should belong to Iraq now.

 

[Gonz]

Nah, Kuwait should belong to the US, as would Germany, France, Poland, Bosnia & Iraq, to name a few. When Israel is attacked & they take land, that's called good management. It's also called security.

 

[flavio]

Nah, Kuwait should belong to the US, as would Germany, France, Poland, Bosnia & Iraq, to name a few. When Israel is attacked & they take land, that's called good management. It's also called security.

It's also called a violation of the UN charter and Geneva Convention.

You missed something above....

"In June 1967, we again had a choice. The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him."

It seems you have no problem with Israeli's invading other countries and taking their land, massacre of civilians, creating vast numbers of refugees, torture, or violating international law. If the other countries retaliate that's when there's a problem?

 

[paul_valaru]

yeah, they just decided to invade, I mean there where no signs that maybe they shoudl do something

During the early months of 1966, it became clear that Israel's neighbors were escalating activities against her. More and more Israeli civilians were killed in attacks coming from the Syrian and Jordanian borders. The Syrians, from atop the Golan Heights, shelled Israeli towns indiscriminately.

On May 15, 1967, Egyptian forces moved into the Sinai (1).

On May 18, Egypt expelled the U.N. Peacekeeping forces from Israel's borders.

On the 22nd, the Egyptians closed the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping.

On the 25th, encouraged by Egypt - Syria, Jordan, Iraq and Saudi Arabia moved their troops to Israel's borders.

Two days later, on the 26th of May, President Nasser of Egypt declared, "Our basic goal is the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight.... The mining of Sharm El Sheik is a confrontation with Israel"

 

[paul_valaru]

israel was created when the Zionist project encouraged massive numbers of Jews to immigrate to Palestine from other countries, they then dispossesed and expelled the native people from their land, denied them polital rights, destroyed their villages, indicriminately used torture, massacred civilians, and left hundreds of thousands of refugees homeless and starving.

That would be why they don't want to recognize Israel. You see that right? ...if you don't why not?

You mean when jews immagrated to a jewish state as suggested in the balfour declaration, in 1917.

where they moved into unoccupied unowned land (or owned by the british) or land PURCHASED from arabs.

creating a non-theocratical state, where everyone has rights?

and all this torture massacred civilians....lies

 

[Gonz]

Now Paul, we know that

shelled Israeli towns indiscriminately

is not an act of war (when carried out against the US or Israel exclusively)

 

[Gonz]

for those of you who don't know about it...

The best remembered action at Khartoum, however, was the adoption of the dictum of "Three NOs" with respect to Israel:

NO peace with Israel
NO recognition of Israel
NO negotiations with Israel

 

[Inkara1]

I'm still trying to figure out what made you think I said either of those.

If you bring up something the Jews did in 1982, then it's a given that you must think what they did in 1982 is fair game. Seems simple enough.

I'm too lazy to search and see if you said Saddam was no threat, but if you yourself didn't say those exact words, many others who think like you have said so. But he gassed the Kurds in 1988. Apparently the obvious conclusion is that past performance is not an indicator of future results.

 

[Winky]

"past performance is not an indicator of future results"

sounds like a disclaimer from a mutual fund

 

[Inkara1]

Indeed; I'd thought about referring to him as the human mutual fund... but that might imply that he's human.

 

[flavio]

yeah, they just decided to invade, I mean there where no signs that maybe they shoudl do something

Hey good to see you make some posts with some substance...seriously.

An important thing to notice is that nowhere in your quote are Palestinians mentioned.

But about the incident...

The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.' "Noam Chomsky, "The Fateful Triangle."

"I do not think Nasser wanted war. The two divisions he sent to The Sinai would not have been sufficient to launch an offensive war. He knew it and we knew it." Yitzhak Rabin, Israel's Chief of Staff in 1967, in Le Monde, 2/28/68

"Moshe Dayan, the celebrated commander who, as Defense Minister in 1967, gave the order to conquer the Golan...[said] many of the firefights with the Syrians were deliberately provoked by Israel, and the kibbutz residents who pressed the Government to take the Golan Heights did so less for security than for the farmland...[Dayan stated] 'They didn't even try to hide their greed for the land...

full quotes...

You mean when jews immagrated to a jewish state as suggested in the balfour declaration, in 1917.

There was no jewish state until 1948. There was only a small minority of Jews. The migration started around 1880.

1870 Palestinians: 367,224 (98%) Jews: 7,000 (2%)
1912 Palestinians: 525,000 (93%) Jews: 40,000 (6%)
1925 Palestinians: 598,000 (83%) Jews: 120,000 (17%)
1946 Palestinians: 1,237,000 (65%) Jews: 608,000 (35%)

The Balfour Declaration is responsible for creating a lot of conflict....

"The Balfour Declaration, made in November 1917 by the British Government...was made a) by a European power, b) about a non-European territory, c) in flat disregard of both the presence and wishes of the native majority resident in that territory...[As Balfour himself wrote in 1919], 'The contradiction between the letter of the Covenant (the Anglo French Declaration of 1918 promising the Arabs of the former Ottoman colonies that as a reward for supporting the Allies they could have their independence) is even more flagrant in the case of the independent nation of Palestine than in that of the independent nation of Syria. For in Palestine we do not propose even to go through the form of consulting the wishes of the present inhabitants of the country...The four powers are committed to Zionism and Zionism, be it right or wrong, good or bad, is rooted in age-long tradition, in present needs, in future hopes, of far profounder import than the desire and prejudices of the 700,000 Arabs who now inhabit that ancient land,'" Edward Said, "The Question of Palestine."

where they moved into unoccupied unowned land (or owned by the british) or land PURCHASED from arabs.

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]This was followed by a forced evacuation characterized by summary executions and looting and involving upwards of 70,000 Palestinian civilians - almost 10% of the total exodus of 1947- 49. Similar scenarios were enacted, as Morris shows, in central Galilee, Upper Galilee and the northern Negev, as well as in the post-war expulsion of the Palestinians of Al Majdal (Ashkelon). Most of these operations (with the exception of the latter) were marked by atrocities - a fact which led Aharon Zisling, the minister of agriculture, to tell the Israeli cabinet on 17 November 1948: "I couldn't sleep all night. I felt that things that were going on were hurting my soul, the soul of my family and all of us here (...) Now Jews too have behaved like Nazis and my entire being has been shaken (10)."[/font][font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The Israeli government of the time pursued a policy of non- compromise, in order to prevent the return of the refugees "at any price" (as Ben Gurion himself put it), despite the fact that the UN General Assembly had been calling for this since 11 December 1948. Their villages were either destroyed or occupied by Jewish immigrants, and their lands were shared out between the surrounding kibbutzim. The law on "abandoned properties" - which was designed to make possible the seizure of any land belonging to persons who were "absent" - "legalized" this project of general confiscation as of December 1948. Almost 400 Arab villages were thus either wiped off the map or Judaised, as were most of the Arab quarters in mixed towns. According to a report drawn up in 1952, Israel had thus succeeded in expropriating 73,000 rooms in abandoned houses, 7,800 shops, workshops and warehouses, 5 million Palestinian pounds in bank accounts, and - most important of all - 300,000 hectares of land (11). [/font]

Source....

creating a non-theocratical state, where everyone has rights?

"Meanwhile, successive governments have regarded the Arab community as a hostile element in the context of the ongoing violence between Israel and the Occupied Territories. Israel has been in an officially declared state of emergency from 1948 to date, with the state's Arab citizens subjected to military rule from 1948 until 1966. Various pieces of emergency legislation authorise the state to suspend the Arab citizens' civil rights. Especially after the events of October 2000, when 13 Arab citizens of Israel were killed by the Israeli security forces, the situation of the Arab minority has worsened."

Source...

and all this torture massacred civilians....lies

I keep putting up evidence. Do you have something that contradicts it?

 

[paul_valaru]

Lots, I even think I know where your sources are coming from. as i was googling around last night. And it is very biased (well so are some of the ones I looked for my side, some TOO biased even for me).

Palestine is a geographical region, not a country (well it is starting to be one now, with the peace prosess).

the arabs that sold their lands to jewish settlers...well one reason they are so angry (and thier great grandchildren now) is that they where turned away, or put into refugee camps by thier OWN people, not the jewish settlers, but they blamed the jews cause the deal didn't turn out for them like they thought.

now early Israel, before it was Israel, there where 2 groups, one became the goverment the other was so militant, that there is no choice to call them terrorists, they bombed hotels, and killed etc. But to equate what they dis to Israel (ie the goverment) is like equating McVeigh to the american Gov or al-queda to the entire muslim world (ok, some people do that last one).

Palestine, the area that became Israel was first part of the ottoman empire, when said empire was disolved England got what is now Israel and Jordan (then called Transjordan) and France got Syria. Part of the agreements back then is that they would take these lands and run them while preparing them for self rule, the land of Israel was always slated since then to be a Jewish homeland, so while it was not officially done til 48 the plans where in fact laid back then by the league of nations, now half of this British land was supposed to be an arab state, and that land is not now Israel.

and yes the Idea of a Jewish state was proposed by a Zionist, but you keep saying Zionist like it is a bad word, which it is not, it is akin to calling an american a patriot. some are good patriots, some are wackos, jsut like everywhere else in the world.

 

[Winky]

Heh heh heh

Hey Flamio what country are you from anyway???

 

[catocom]

Paul IMHO the difference I see is, you are more of a realist that actually
has the concept of making some kind of solution. Most all the Radical left
don't have, or want to think about solution.

 

[flavio]

Lots, I even think I know where your sources are coming from. as i was googling around last night. And it is very biased.

It would have been easier to find my sources if you had clicked on the links that say "Source...". You should probably get in the habit of giving your source too.

the arabs that sold their lands to jewish settlers...well one reason they are so angry (and thier great grandchildren now) is that they where turned away, or put into refugee camps by thier OWN people, not the jewish settlers, but they blamed the jews cause the deal didn't turn out for them like they thought.

No freakin' way. There's massive amounts of evidence from many sources(much I've already posted) detailing the expulsion. Even Jewish sites agree.

Here's a quote from an Israeli historian...

Israel's responsibility for Refugees - The Jewish military advantage was translated into an act of mass expulsion of more than half of the Palestinian population. The Israeli forces, apart from rare exceptions, expelled the Palestinians from every village and town they occupied. In some cases, this expulsion was accompanied by massacres [of civilians] as was the case in Lydda, Ramleh, Dawimiyya, Sa'sa, Ein Zietun and other places. Expulsion also was accompanied by rape, looting and confiscation [of Palestinian land and property]...

now early Israel, before it was Israel, there where 2 groups, one became the goverment the other was so militant, that there is no choice to call them terrorists, they bombed hotels, and killed etc. But to equate what they dis to Israel (ie the goverment) is like equating McVeigh to the american Gov or al-queda to the entire muslim world (ok, some people do that last one).

Israeli terrorist groups were supported by their governmwn in mant cases.

Palestine, the area that became Israel was first part of the ottoman empire, when said empire was disolved England got what is now Israel and Jordan (then called Transjordan) and France got Syria. Part of the agreements back then is that they would take these lands and run them while preparing them for self rule, the land of Israel was always slated since then to be a Jewish homeland, so while it was not officially done til 48 the plans where in fact laid back then by the league of nations, now half of this British land was supposed to be an arab state, and that land is not now Israel.

Always slated to be a jewish homeland? What makes you think that? Where they always supposed to expel the native population and create refugees?

and yes the Idea of a Jewish state was proposed by a Zionist, but you keep saying Zionist like it is a bad word, which it is not, it is akin to calling an american a patriot. some are good patriots, some are wackos, jsut like everywhere else in the world.

The Zionist project was responsible for creating hundreds of thousands of refugees, stealing land, breaking mandates, etc.

 

[paul_valaru]

Jews for Justice for Palastine is hardly what I would call a reliable source.

i find no record of , Ramleh, Dawimiyya, Sa'sa, Ein Zietunby any reputable news site when i goolge it, only pro arab sights.

sounds like a lot of the writings of this guy crazy dude he is on the line of holocaust denyers

now some stuff




Myths & Facts Online
The Refugees
By Mitchell G. Bard

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“One million Palestinians were expelled by Israel from 1947-49.”
“The Jews made clear from the outset they had no intention of living peacefully with their Arab neighbors.”
“The Jews created the refugee problem by expelling the Palestinians.”
“The Arab invasion had little impact on the Palestinian Arabs.”
“Arab leaders never encouraged the Palestinians to flee.”
“The Palestinian Arabs had to flee to avoid being massacred as were the peaceful villagers in Deir Yassin.”
“Israel refused to allow Palestinians to return to their homes so Jews could steal their property.”
“UN resolutions call for Israel to repatriate all Palestinian refugees.”
“Israel blocked negotiations by the Palestine Conciliation Commission.”
“Palestinians who wanted to return to their homes posed no danger to Israeli security.”
“The Palestinian refugees were ignored by an uncaring world.”
“The Arab states have provided most of the funds for helping the Palestinian refugees.”
“The Arab states have always welcomed the Palestinians and done their best to resettle them.”
“Millions of Palestinians are confined to squalid refugee camps.”
“Israel forced the Palestinian refugees to stay in camps in the Gaza Strip.”
“Refugees have always been repatriated, only the Palestinians have been barred from returning to their homes.”
“Had the Palestinian refugees been repatriated, the Arab-Israeli conflict could have ended.”
“Israel expelled more Palestinians in 1967.”
“UNRWA is purely a humanitarian organization that bears no responsibility for the terror and incitement that originates in the refugee camps.”



MYTH

"One million Palestinians were expelled by Israel from 1947-49."

FACT

The Palestinians left their homes in 1947-49 for a variety of reasons. Thousands of wealthy Arabs left in anticipation of a war, thousands more responded to Arab leaders' calls to get out of the way of the advancing armies, a handful were expelled, but most simply fled to avoid being caught in the cross fire of a battle.

Many Arabs claim that 800,000 to 1,000,000 Palestinians became refugees in 1947-49. The last census was taken by the British in 1945. It found approximately 1.2 million permanent Arab residents in all of Palestine. A 1949 Government of Israel census counted 160,000 Arabs living in the country after the war. In 1947, a total of 809,100 Arabs lived in the same area.1 This meant no more than 650,000 Palestinian Arabs could have become refugees. A report by the UN Mediator on Palestine arrived at an even lower figure — 472,000, and calculated that only about 360,000 Arab refugees required aid.2

Although much is heard about the plight of the Palestinian refugees, little is said about the Jews who fled from Arab states. Their situation had long been precarious. During the 1947 UN debates, Arab leaders threatened them. For example, Egypt's delegate told the General Assembly: "The lives of one million Jews in Muslim countries would be jeopardized by partition."3



The number of Jews fleeing Arab countries for Israel in the years following Israel's independence was nearly double the number of Arabs leaving Palestine. Many Jews were allowed to take little more than the shirts on their backs. These refugees had no desire to be repatriated. Little is heard about them because they did not remain refugees for long. Of the 820,000 Jewish refugees between 1948 and 1972, 586,000 were resettled in Israel at great expense, and without any offer of compensation from the Arab governments who confiscated their possessions.3a Israel has consequently maintained that any agreement to compensate the Palestinian refugees must also include Arab compensation for Jewish refugees. To this day, the Arab states have refused to pay any compensation to the hundreds of thousands of Jews who were forced to abandon their property before fleeing those countries. Through November 2003, 101 of the 681 UN resolutions on the Middle East conflict referred directly to Palestinian refugees. Not one mentioned the Jewish refugees from Arab countries.3b

The contrast between the reception of Jewish and Palestinian refugees is even starker when one considers the difference in cultural and geographic dislocation experienced by the two groups. Most Jewish refugees traveled hundreds — and some traveled thousands — of miles to a tiny country whose inhabitants spoke a different language. Most Arab refugees never left Palestine at all; they traveled a few miles to the other side of the truce line, remaining inside the vast Arab nation that they were part of linguistically, culturally and ethnically.

MYTH

"The Jews made clear from the outset they had no intention of living peacefully with their Arab neighbors."

FACT

In numerous instances, Jewish leaders urged the Arabs to remain in Palestine and become citizens of Israel. The Assembly of Palestine Jewry issued this appeal on October 2, 1947:

We will do everything in our power to maintain peace, and establish a cooperation gainful to both [Jews and Arabs]. It is now, here and now, from Jerusalem itself, that a call must go out to the Arab nations to join forces with Jewry and the destined Jewish State and work shoulder to shoulder for our common good, for the peace and progress of sovereign equals.4

On November 30, the day after the UN partition vote, the Jewish Agency announced: "The main theme behind the spontaneous celebrations we are witnessing today is our community's desire to seek peace and its determination to achieve fruitful cooperation with the Arabs...."5

Israel's Proclamation of Independence, issued May 14, 1948, also invited the Palestinians to remain in their homes and become equal citizens in the new state:

In the midst of wanton aggression, we yet call upon the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve the ways of peace and play their part in the development of the State, on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its bodies and institutions....We extend our hand in peace and neighborliness to all the neighboring states and their peoples, and invite them to cooperate with the independent Jewish nation for the common good of all.

MYTH

"The Jews created the refugee problem by expelling the Palestinians."

FACT

Had the Arabs accepted the 1947 UN resolution, not a single Palestinian would have become a refugee. An independent Arab state would now exist beside Israel. The responsibility for the refugee problem rests with the Arabs.

The beginning of the Arab exodus can be traced to the weeks immediately following the announcement of the UN partition resolution. The first to leave were roughly 30,000 wealthy Arabs who anticipated the upcoming war and fled to neighboring Arab countries to await its end. Less affluent Arabs from the mixed cities of Palestine moved to all-Arab towns to stay with relatives or friends.6 By the end of January1948, the exodus was so alarming the Palestine Arab Higher Committee asked neighboring Arab countries to refuse visas to these refugees and to seal their borders against them.7

On January 30, 1948, the Jaffa newspaper, Ash Sha'ab, reported: "The first of our fifth-column consists of those who abandon their houses and businesses and go to live elsewhere....At the first signs of trouble they take to their heels to escape sharing the burden of struggle."8

Another Jaffa paper, As Sarih (March 30, 1948) excoriated Arab villagers near Tel Aviv for "bringing down disgrace on us all by 'abandoning the villages.'"9

Meanwhile, a leader of the Arab National Committee in Haifa, Hajj Nimer el-Khatib, said Arab soldiers in Jaffa were mistreating the residents. "They robbed individuals and homes. Life was of little value, and the honor of women was defiled. This state of affairs led many [Arab] residents to leave the city under the protection of British tanks."10
John Bagot Glubb, the commander of Jordan's Arab Legion, said: "Villages were frequently abandoned even before they were threatened by the progress of war."11

Contemporary press reports of major battles in which large numbers of Arabs fled conspicuously fail to mention any forcible expulsion by the Jewish forces. The Arabs are usually described as "fleeing" or "evacuating" their homes. While Zionists are accused of "expelling and dispossessing" the Arab inhabitants of such towns as Tiberias and Haifa, the truth is much different. Both of those cities were within the boundaries of the Jewish State under the UN partition scheme and both were fought for by Jews and Arabs alike.

Jewish forces seized Tiberias on April 19, 1948, and the entire Arab population of 6,000 was evacuated under British military supervision. The Jewish Community Council issued a statement afterward: "We did not dispossess them; they themselves chose this course....Let no citizen touch their property."12

In early April, an estimated 25,000 Arabs left the Haifa area following an offensive by the irregular forces led by Fawzi al-Qawukji, and rumors that Arab air forces would soon bomb the Jewish areas around Mt. Carmel.13 On April 23, the Haganah captured Haifa. A British police report from Haifa, dated April 26, explained that "every effort is being made by the Jews to persuade the Arab populace to stay and carry on with their normal lives, to get their shops and businesses open and to be assured that their lives and interests will be safe."14 In fact, David Ben-Gurion had sent Golda Meir to Haifa to try to persuade the Arabs to stay, but she was unable to convince them because of their fear of being judged traitors to the Arab cause.15 By the end of the battle, more than 50,000 Palestinians had left.

“Tens of thousands of Arab men, women and children fled toward the eastern outskirts of the city in cars, trucks, carts, and afoot in a desperate attempt to reach Arab territory until the Jews captured Rushmiya Bridge toward Samaria and Northern Palestine and cut them off. Thousands rushed every available craft, even rowboats, along the waterfront, to escape by sea toward Acre.”

— New York Times, (April 23, 1948)


In Tiberias and Haifa, the Haganah issued orders that none of the Arabs' possessions should be touched, and warned that anyone who violated the orders would be severely punished. Despite these efforts, all but about 5,000 or 6,000 Arabs evacuated Haifa, many leaving with the assistance of British military transports.

Syria's UN delegate, Faris el-Khouri, interrupted the UN debate on Palestine to describe the seizure of Haifa as a "massacre" and said this action was "further evidence that the 'Zionist program' is to annihilate Arabs within the Jewish state if partition is effected."16

The following day, however, the British representative at the UN, Sir Alexander Cadogan, told the delegates that the fighting in Haifa had been provoked by the continuous attacks by Arabs against Jews a few days before and that reports of massacres and deportations were erroneous.17

The same day (April 23, 1948), Jamal Husseini, the chairman of the Palestine Higher Committee, told the UN Security Council that instead of accepting the Haganah's truce offer, the Arabs "preferred to abandon their homes, their belongings, and everything they possessed in the world and leave the town."18

The U.S. Consul-General in Haifa, Aubrey Lippincott, wrote on April 22, 1948, for example, that "local mufti-dominated Arab leaders" were urging "all Arabs to leave the city, and large numbers did so."19

An army order issued July 6, 1948, made clear that Arab towns and villages were not to be demolished or burned, and that Arab inhabitants were not to be expelled from their homes.20

The Haganah did employ psychological warfare to encourage the Arabs to abandon a few villages. Yigal Allon, the commander of the Palmach (the "shock force of the Haganah"), said he had Jews talk to the Arabs in neighboring villages and tell them a large Jewish force was in Galilee with the intention of burning all the Arab villages in the Lake Hula region. The Arabs were told to leave while they still had time and, according to Allon, they did exactly that.21

In the most dramatic example, in the Ramle-Lod area, Israeli troops seeking to protect their flanks and relieve the pressure on besieged Jerusalem, forced a portion of the Arab population to go to an area a few miles away that was occupied by the Arab Legion. "The two towns had served as bases for Arab irregular units, which had frequently attacked Jewish convoys and nearby settlements, effectively barring the main road to Jerusalem to Jewish traffic."22

As was clear from the descriptions of what took place in the cities with the largest Arab populations, these cases were clearly the exceptions, accounting for only a small fraction of the Palestinian refugees.

so there was rape, by ARAB soldiers.

source

also onto refugees....seems jews might have been displaced as well....read me

 

[paul_valaru]

jenin massacre

MYTH

“Israel perpetrated a massacre in the Jenin refugee camp in April 2002.”

FACT

Secretary of State Colin Powell concisely refuted Palestinian claims that Israel was guilty of atrocities in Jenin. “I see no evidence that would support a massacre took place.”62 Powell's view was subsequently confirmed by the United Nations, Human Rights Watch and an investigation by the European Union.63

The Palestinians repeatedly claimed that a massacre had been committed in the days immediately following the battle. Spokesman Saeb Erekat, for example, told CNN on April 17 that at least 500 people were massacred and 1,600 people, including women and children, were missing. The Palestinians quickly backpedaled when it became clear they could not produce any evidence to support the scurrilous charge, and their own review committee reported a death toll of 56, of whom 34 were combatants. No women or children were reported missing.64

Israel did not arbitrarily choose to raid the refugee camp in Jenin. It had little choice after a series of suicide bombings had terrorized Israeli civilians for the preceding 18 months. To defend itself and bring about hope for peace, Israeli forces went into Jenin to root out one of the principal terrorist bases.

The Palestinian Authority's own documents call Jenin the "suiciders capital." The camp has a long history as a base for extremists, and no less than 28 suicide attacks were launched from this terror nest during the wave of violence that preceded Israel's action. These terrorists violated the cease-fire agreed to by Israel and undermined Israeli efforts to resume political negotiations toward a final peace agreement.

Palestinian snipers targeted soldiers from a girls' school, a mosque, and a UNRWA building, and, in returning fire and pursuing terrorists, some noncombatants were hit. Any civilian casualty is a tragedy, but some were unavoidable because Palestinian terrorists used civilians as shields. The majority of casualties were gunmen.

Israel also kept the hospital running in Jenin. Lt. Col. Fuad Halhal, the Druze commander of the district coordinating body for the IDF, personally delivered a generator to the hospital under fire during the military operation.65

While Israel could have chosen to bomb the entire camp, the strategy employed by the U.S. in Afghanistan, the IDF deliberately chose a riskier path to reduce the likelihood of endangering civilians. Soldiers went house to house and 23 were killed in bitter combat with Palestinian terrorists using bombs, grenades, booby-traps and machine guns to turn the camp into a war zone.

Television pictures gave a distorted perspective of the damage in the camp as well. Jenin was not destroyed. The Israeli operation was conducted in a limited area of the refugee camp, which itself comprises a small fraction of the city. The destruction that did occur in the camp was largely caused by Palestinian bombs.

Palestinians have learned from fabricating atrocity stories in the past that a false claim against Israel will get immediate media attention and attract sympathy for their cause. The corrections that inevitably follow these specious charges are rarely seen, read, or noticed.

Sabra & Shatila

The Lebanese Christian Phalangist militia was responsible for the massacres that occurred at the two Beirut-area refugee camps on September 16*17, 1982. Israeli troops allowed the Phalangists to enter Sabra and Shatila to root out terrorist cells believed located there. It had been estimated that there may have been up to 200 armed men in the camps working out of the countless bunkers built by the PLO over the years, and stocked with generous reserves of ammunition.

When Israeli soldiers ordered the Phalangists out, they found hundreds dead (estimates range from 460 according to the Lebanese police, to 700-800 calculated by Israeli intelligence). The dead, according to the Lebanese account, included 35 women and children. The rest were men: Palestinians, Lebanese, Pakistanis, Iranians, Syrians and Algerians. The killings came on top of an estimated 95,000 deaths that had occurred during the civil war in Lebanon from 1975-1982.

The killings were perpetrated to avenge the murders of Lebanese President Bashir Gemayel and 25 of his followers, killed in a bomb attack earlier that week.

Israel had allowed the Phalange to enter the camps as part of a plan to transfer authority to the Lebanese, and accepted responsibility for that decision. The Kahan Commission of Inquiry, formed by the Israeli government in response to public outrage and grief, found that Israel was indirectly responsible for not anticipating the possibility of Phalangist violence. Israel instituted the panel's recommendations, including the dismissal of Gen. Raful Eitan, the Army Chief of Staff. Defense Minister Ariel Sharon resigned.

The Kahan Commission, declared former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, was "a great tribute to Israeli democracy....There are very few governments in the world that one can imagine making such a public investigation of such a difficult and shameful episode."

Ironically, while 300,000 Israelis demonstrated in Israel to protest the killings, little or no reaction occurred in the Arab world. Outside the Middle East, a major international outcry against Israel erupted over the massacres. The Phalangists, who perpetrated the crime, were spared the brunt of the condemnations for it.

By contrast, few voices were raised in May 1985, when Muslim militiamen attacked the Shatila and Burj-el Barajneh Palestinian refugee camps. According to UN officials, 635 were killed and 2,500 wounded. During a two-year battle between the Syrian-backed Shiite Amal militia and the PLO, more than 2,000, including many civilians, were reportedly killed. No outcry was directed at the PLO or the Syrians and their allies over the slaughter. International reaction was also muted in October 1990 when Syrian forces overran Christian-controlled areas of Lebanon. In the eight-hour clash, 700 Christians were killed-the worst single battle of Lebanon's Civil War.

 

[Gonz]

Paul, don't waste your time. The terrorist backing folks refuse to see what is so clearly before them & has been for 50+ years.

 

[flavio]

Paul, don't waste your time. The terrorist backing folks refuse to see what is so clearly before them & has been for 50+ years.

Keep it up Paul. The people in love with terrorism just turn off their brain and run when confronted with logic and facts and just get all whacked out with envy and jealousy when they see someone like you trying to back up what they say.

I'll get back to you later.....

 

[Winky]

Yeah don't worry he'll be back to tell us how the
terrorists are really freedom fighters and that
Bush is Hitler

we're countin' on ya Buddie