Health Care

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valkyrie

Well-Known Member
Isn't medicare nationalised already?
Medicare is a health insurance administered by the US government. It provides health coverage for citizens who are 65 and over.
Medicaid is another government administered program (jointly funded between state and federal and run by the states) that provides health coverage for low-income citizens (and resident aliens) and their families. However, not all poor people are covered under Medicaid. It is estimated that only about 40% are covered, because income is not the lone factor in establishing eligibility.
 

valkyrie

Well-Known Member
Old folks insurance (fewer & fewer doctors are taking medicare patients)
This is true. But it's because the program (Medicare) limits what can be charged for services. If a doc can charge a private patient more, why take in one that has limits. New boats and sports cars are not free!
 

BeardofPants

New Member
Some of the fear-mongering that I've seen on the intarwebs has been positively scary. :eek: Best one I"ve seen so far:

The U.K.'s National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE) basically figures out who deserves treatment by using a cost-utility analysis based on the "quality adjusted life year."

One year in perfect health gets you one point. Deductions are taken for blindness, for being in a wheelchair and so on.

The more points you have, the more your life is considered worth saving, and the likelier you are to get care.

People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless.

Can anyone spot the glaring oversight?

http://www.librarygrape.com/2009/08/stephen-hawking-not-killed-by-uk-health.html
 

catocom

Well-Known Member
0bama is doing a "townhall" today.

That is, of course, if you consider nothing but dem plants and 0bots cheering like he is some kind of a hero a "townhall."

what he didn't say is, if he would support legislation to address things that
are left open to interpretation.
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
Most of what you said was made up, so I won't respond to it.

Too bad because none of it is made up.

However, we DO have a problem with our healthcare.

Please, explain it to me.



Offering cash to the doctor does not lower the cost (I've tried). There is a law on the books now that prevents a doctor from lowering the fee for service for individuals, but an insurance company can bargain the cost down. (Sorry, no time to look up the law, this was quoted to me from a doctor himself.)

Must be a state law.
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
This is true. But it's because the program (Medicare) limits what can be charged for services. If a doc can charge a private patient more, why take in one that has limits. New boats and sports cars are not free!

Neither is electricty. Nor nurses. Don't forget rent/mortgage, supplies, office equipment, lab equipment, telephone systems, malpractice insurance...
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
Sure. Got a newspaper from, oh, about, 1987-'89?

Tell me oh guru of single payer, what statements are incorrect?
 

spike

New Member
ok, i'll just start at the top.

Very few can identify a specific problem, unless Geraldo told 'em.

Many people can identify specific problems. You don't listen.

Pay cash at your doctor & that $110 office visit suddenly is $68.

valk has already shown this to be false. I've also paid cash with no change in cost.

What tests are required vs what tests the doctor feels are necessary to fulfill legal ramifications due to overzealous lawyers.

Maybe you could back that up?

The reason for the explosion of costs is two-fold.

Evidence needed here as well.
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
True story here. I know Prof will disagree, but that doesn't make this any less poignant.

This guy who is about 70, (yet acts like he is 35) always pays me to fix his computer (he and his wife just love the pRoNo don'tcha know!). He is a retiree from the Canadian armed forces, or what we would consider navy. In any case, it is rare that we talk about politics because he is a lot more conservative than I am, but he was dropping off the computer and one of those lying scare tactic commercials came on, and then the news covered some people complaining about all the horrors to come if health reform is passed. My remark was something to the effect that the United States, great as it is, is the world's leading producer of blithering idiots.

He told me he cannot understand why folks are so worried about losing an obviously broken system. He said that despite what people tell you, he or his immediate family has never experienced unreasonable wait times for tests or procedures. He also said he trusts Canadian doctors over American ones any day of the week. He thinks it is largely due to potential malpractice issues, and the fact that the more American doctors run tests or procedures the more money they make. He thinks that we are fools not to fix the BS we have now. I have to agree with him!

But it looks like the insurance industry has won again with their lies and scare tactics, because so many of you believe them. Any reform we get now will only increase their profit margin and set our system farther back. Money is the priority, patients are an afterthought.
 

catocom

Well-Known Member
the problem is trust at this point.
What we Have seen legislated, and what the pres. has said, are not
the right ways to fix it.
They aren't worried about fixing it seems. They want to 'replace'.
What they have said they want to do is not workable.

If they will slow down, explain everything, and do it right, that is
the only way to get something, without escalated trouble.
 
the problem is trust at this point.
What we Have seen legislated, and what the pres. has said, are not
the right ways to fix it.
They aren't worried about fixing it seems. They want to 'replace'.
What they have said they want to do is not workable.

If they will slow down, explain everything, and do it right, that is
the only way to get something, without escalated trouble.

Amen to that, but the lies are on both sides. Seems like there is a lot of lies and little truth.
 

catocom

Well-Known Member
it's gonna be a long hard break for some of um.
We'll see how they are going to act after the break.

What's pissing the people off the most is, like, the arrogance of
Sheila Jackson, and other so called reps.

The reps that are actually listening, don't seem to be having as hard a time.

I will acknowledge that 'stages' on both sides have been made imo.
That only hurts a cause.
 

Professur

Well-Known Member
True story here. I know Prof will disagree, but that doesn't make this any less poignant.

This guy who is about 70, (yet acts like he is 35) always pays me to fix his computer (he and his wife just love the pRoNo don'tcha know!). He is a retiree from the Canadian armed forces, or what we would consider navy. In any case, it is rare that we talk about politics because he is a lot more conservative than I am, but he was dropping off the computer and one of those lying scare tactic commercials came on, and then the news covered some people complaining about all the horrors to come if health reform is passed. My remark was something to the effect that the United States, great as it is, is the world's leading producer of blithering idiots.

He told me he cannot understand why folks are so worried about losing an obviously broken system. He said that despite what people tell you, he or his immediate family has never experienced unreasonable wait times for tests or procedures. He also said he trusts Canadian doctors over American ones any day of the week. He thinks it is largely due to potential malpractice issues, and the fact that the more American doctors run tests or procedures the more money they make. He thinks that we are fools not to fix the BS we have now. I have to agree with him!

But it looks like the insurance industry has won again with their lies and scare tactics, because so many of you believe them. Any reform we get now will only increase their profit margin and set our system farther back. Money is the priority, patients are an afterthought.

RJ, obviously you didn't get my points earlier. Socialised medicine is a wonderful thing. I mentioned before my reaction when Tonks' little girl got burned on a BBQ.

What I don't think is a good thing is giving the reigns over to an already corrupt, bloated, self-aggrandizing bureaucracy, which has already managed to bankrupt your country into the next flammin' millennium. If I was to compare insurance costs (applied to every pay I earn) against anyone here who's fully insured, who do you think is going to pay more annually?

I've already listed the ways our gov't has skimmed any possible overage into it's own pockets, leaving nothing for shortfall years. Then continually increased the percentage taken, despite longer and longer waiting lines, lower raises for medical pros, and loosing more and more promising doctors to the private sector simply because of oppressive regulations and restrictive pay scales. Worse, the system is exclusive. I can't opt out. I can't go to a private clinic. I can't demand experimental treatments, or even regular treatments without a doctor's go ahead. A doctor I can't even get to, because there's so few family practitioners left, and they've all got full dance cards.

Tell me that the Obamaplan addresses those issues. Tell me how your new system is going to avoid running out of cash just like your social security plan has. Just like France's public health plan is.

Don't tell me how great I've got it. I know how great socialized medicine is. I brought 3 kids into the world under it. A couple of months back, had half her thumb sewn back on. My mother's broken bones, survived cancer, had her gallbladder out ... all under Medicare. But I also know the theft, waste and corruption side of it. You complain about the corruption of your private insurance. Right now, at least you have options. How are you going to deal with one option, forced upon you at the point of a tax judge's gavel? Miss a payment now, you're uninsured. Miss a payment later, go to jail. But wait, you can't miss a payment anymore. It's deducted at the source. You might miss a meal, but you'll never miss a payment.
 

spike

New Member
Hey Prof, the current bills still let you have your options. Just one more of them.

leftvsconservatards.png
 
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