Illegal is equal to (word that I'd put here but the whole board would collapse)

[SouthernN'Proud]

Again, I will clarify.

1. I fully support getting rid of them.

2. We both know it ain't gonna happen.

3. I support nothing...I simply stated what is occurring. Again, being a realist.

4. I would like nothing better than to see the business of agriculture be treated like all others. It never has been though, and it ain't likely to start tomorrow.

So, yeah, I say ship 'em out, AND let's see some restructuring of the ag business take place.

Fair enough? [/olive branch]

 

[HomeLAN]

Hell, that's where I've been coming from all along. We just differ on whether it's doable.

Have a beer. *Psht*

 

[Gonz]

...that's not part of the way things are here, is something they embraced when got there.

Yet you give me shit whenever I bitch about it

 

[SouthernN'Proud]

Yet you give me shit whenever I bitch about it

Dunno about Luis, but that's 80% of what keeps me here dude!

 

[Luis G]

Yet you give me shit whenever I bitch about it

You bitch about them embracing the PC bullshit?

You better bitch about your society becoming part of the PC bullshit

 

[PT]

Again, I will clarify.

1. I fully support getting rid of them.

2. We both know it ain't gonna happen.

3. I support nothing...I simply stated what is occurring. Again, being a realist.

4. I would like nothing better than to see the business of agriculture be treated like all others. It never has been though, and it ain't likely to start tomorrow.

So, yeah, I say ship 'em out, AND let's see some restructuring of the ag business take place.

Fair enough? [/olive branch]

Ditto to all of that.

 

[Gonz]

You bitch about them embracing the PC bullshit?

You better bitch about your society becoming part of the PC bullshit

Yes to both...always have, always will.

SnP...bite me

 

[PT]

And you remember price elasticity, correct? While it may not be the highest in agri, it's there. BTW, get the illegals out of the big farms as well. That'll level your playing field (well, at least to as level as it is now). That low price will stop being acceptable to the corporate farmer.

What you people are telling me is that farming is a business where you simply cannot succeed without breaking the law. I ain't buying it.

Not necessarily, if you're huge, you can do it. Economies of Scale. Grow enough acres of anything and get big enough equipement to till, plant, and harvest and you can make money.

Price elasticity is there, but again you're forgetting another important part of the equation for the small farmer. The fact that we're still producing more than we need. The fact that the govt is still buying crops just to keep the little guys in business. Again, it's not right, but it's what is happening. The price elasticity isn't going to have an effect until it gets to the point where there is equal or less goods being supplied than there are goods demanded. Small farmers aren't going to get it to that point, even if they put all their corn in the silos instead of taking it to market.

 

[HomeLAN]

So, you're saying we should allow illegals to put a drain on the economic and government infrastructures to support a set of businessmen whose services are not only unnecessary but actually put their own drain on government coffers?

Congrats, I've never seen someone put a hole in their own argument like that.

 

[PT]

I guess I just have a misplaced empathy for people that have worked their asses off all of their lives to be told they are "no longer necessary" and they should just move on. Oh, nevermind the fact that they have barely an 8th grade education and farming is all they know, I'm sure they'll be fine.

 

[HomeLAN]

Ah. So, we should bring back slide rule factories too, right? After all, it's all those people knew how to build.

 

[PT]

Well, it's like this.

I grew up in central Iowa. I've known alot of farmers in my life. Most are damn fine people. Most are not the best educated, but some are. Almost all of them are damn proud to do what they do. Almost all of them think that govt subsidies are the silliest damn thing they ever heard of.

But, you cut out their business, the only thing they know, and they will do one of three things. They will take a job at whatever factory, conveniece store, walmart, whatever to get by, or they will move to town and collect welfare for the rest of their lives (the ones less proud), or they will shoot themselves. Now, just how many factory jobs do you know of in the middle of Iowa?

There definitely is reform needed in this industry. The technology grew way faster than the demand, causing a huge imbalance between the supply and demand. We decided over fifty years ago we were going to help them out, wait for demand to catch up. Back in 1996 we decided we weren't going to help them anymore. The Freedom to Farm act abolished almost all the subsidies that we had been paying for years. Then in 2002 with thousands of farmers on the brink of backruptcy, Bush Jr. passed the new Farm Bill. Re-enacting the subsidies to keep the farmers afloat. That's where we're at today.

My proposal, well it's pretty simple.

If you are a Corporation or you buy a farm or inherit a farm after a certain date, you're not eligible for subsidies. Have a farm before that date and are not a corporation, you are.

Make it illegal to hire people for less than minimum wage and require them to report all wages paid. Want to keep it tax free? Fine, but you still have to report it.

(just wanted to note, notice the dates the two Acts were passed. The one abolishing the subsidies was signed by Clinton, re-enacting them was signed by Bush.)

 

[Gonz]

1996 we decided we weren't going to help them anymore....Then in 2002...

So, in 16 years (far far longer actually) the proud, noble farmer didn't educate himself & look down the road?

I think the family farmer is overrated. It's an emotion-based argument. If you can't keep up, then you go under. It works for insurance, it works in retail &it should work in farming.

 

[HomeLAN]

I tend to agree. However, so many people have working class hero/people of the earth/must preserve the culture crap tied up in it that they'll continue to use the gov't to take cash from ALL the rest of us to support not only an industry that PT says costs us directly, but one that also actively supports illegals and the costs associated with them.

 

[PT]

So, in 16 years (far far longer actually) the proud, noble farmer didn't educate himself & look down the road?

Dude, first of all, 2002 - 1996 = 6.

However, actually a lot of them did. The average income from a farm is now something like 30% of a farm families gross income.

I tend to agree. However, so many people have working class hero/people of the earth/must preserve the culture crap tied up in it that they'll continue to use the gov't to take cash from ALL the rest of us to support not only an industry that PT says costs us directly, but one that also actively supports illegals and the costs associated with them.

That's very true. The industry is costing us directly and indirectly, yet we continue to support them. I just have to think that the answer to whether we should or not is alot more complicated than just looking at the financials though.

 

[Winky]

Illegal aliens
Undocumented werkers

better yet

Fricken Beanners!

 

[Gonz]

1986...1996...they look alike

 

[Winky]

They all look alike.