Israel? Gaza? Hamas? Who? What? Where?

Discussion in 'The Real World' started by JJR512, Jan 6, 2009.

  1. JJR512

    JJR512 New Member

    OK... Let's pretend for a moment that I'm completely ignorant about the Middle East's problems in general, and I don't know why a lot of people over there don't seem to like a lot of the other people over there, and stuff like that.

    Being as factual and unopinionated as possible, try to explain to me what or where Gaza is, what or who Hamas is, and why they and Israel are fighting now. Who started it, and why?
  2. paul_valaru

    paul_valaru 100% Pure Canadian Beef

    Have you read the bible?

    It will START explaining who did what, maybe
  3. catocom

    catocom Well-Known Member

    I'll leave most of the geography to others...but...
    Gaza and the 'west bank', were giving to the Palestinians.
    The Palestinians then divided....more government in the west bank, and Hamas,
    more religious, and dangerous in Gaza.

    Now Israel is taking out Gaza.
    1 person likes this.
  4. MrBishop

    MrBishop Well-Known Member

    In 1947, the UN split up Palestine into Jewish-controlled areas and Arab Controlled areas.
    This got changed around again in 1948 with the war. With the armistice, both the west bank and gaza strip were owned/controlled by different countries. (Egypt had gaza and Jordan had most of the West Bank) - until 1967

    In 1967, Isreal made a pre-emptive strike on Egypt and Syria. Taking a chunk of land including the Sinai and Suez Canal. Part of it was given back to Syria and Palestine as part of a peace treaty, and the Sinai/Suez was given back in 1979 to Egypt (also for peace and more set borders)

    Since then, Israel has been annexing/settling areas of both the Gaza strip and the West Bank. Israel 'owns/controls' about 40% of Gaza and 60% of the West Bank.
    They control all access/egress to both areas...including fuel, food, medical, etc...

    Hamas was/is both a political power and a 'terrorist' organisation based in Palestine and funded externally. It was elected democratically recently and replaced Fatah, who had replaced the PLO.

    The majority of the conflicts lead from border issues (Location, entry, enforcement) and settlements (legal and illegal). - taxes are another issue entirely.

    That is the Readers Digest version.
    1 person likes this.
  5. chcr

    chcr Too cute for words

    You should specify old testament although I suspect it even predates that.
  6. 2minkey

    2minkey bootlicker

    JJR, try googling "balfour letter." it's the document used by would-be israelis to justify immigration to a land they had not occupied in significant numbers for over a thousand years, and for being exceedingly rude to the locals upon arrival. or just ask gonz. he'll explain that there's these people called palestinians, er, not really because palestine never existed, that are pure evil and love to eat babies. either way, a clear picture will emerge in no time.
  7. BeardofPants

    BeardofPants New Member

    The succinct version? My peener is bigger than your peener.
  8. chcr

    chcr Too cute for words

    Is not.
  9. MrBishop

    MrBishop Well-Known Member

    It's short enough until you try and explain the implications thereof
  10. JJR512

    JJR512 New Member

    OK, so let me get this straight.

    Gaza is an area between Egypt and Israel. It is inhabited by Palestinians. Israelis like to go there and live there and piss the Palestinians off because they think it's their right to do so. Hamas is the government of Gaza and they are now pissed off to the point that they like to shoot rockets at Israel. Now Israel has decided not to tolerate this retaliation.

    Is Gaza an independent sovereign nation like the USA, Canada, Japan, etc.? Is it recognized by the UN or by any other independent national governments?

    Does Israel just want to get Hamas to stop with the rocket attacks, presumably so Israel can get back to pissing off the Palestinians that rightfully live there in peace, or does Israel want to clear out Gaza and take it over permanently?

    Who should I be rooting for?
  11. paul_valaru

    paul_valaru 100% Pure Canadian Beef

    Israel wants out of Gaza, to wash their hands of it, but Gaza keeps throwing rockets over the border, so Israel goes postal

    root for israel or you are an anti-semite.
  12. catocom

    catocom Well-Known Member

    no IMO you'd be irrational

    Al qaeda is backing them. What else do you need?
  13. MrBishop

    MrBishop Well-Known Member queida doesn't back them. Moral support, maybe..but you have to look to Iran for real 'backing'
  14. MrBishop

    MrBishop Well-Known Member

    Kinda - In 1988, they decalred themselves a Nation..but not everyone agreed.

    In 1993, USA accepted the term Nation in relation to Palestine.
  15. spike

    spike New Member

    Yes, they just want out. Which is why they keep building settlements. :rolleyes:

    Root for neither. They're both messed up. I'm just rooting for a peaceful resolution.
  16. catocom

    catocom Well-Known Member

    Like I said...theay all aren't the same, and IMO separated, and thus are.
    Hamas does not equal all Palestinians.

    I saw no occupation to speak of since the split.

    On one note, I will say, in non war time, Israel should ease up on some restrictions,
    and be more like Egypt on some issues.
  17. catocom

    catocom Well-Known Member

  18. MrBishop

    MrBishop Well-Known Member

    They had issues with Lebanon just recently (2006). Not a good start if 'retaliation' against this new barrage of rockets goes beyond what they've already done.
  19. MrBishop

    MrBishop Well-Known Member

    Here's the main issue. Israel wanted a united Israel stretching from the Mediterranean to the Jordan River. "Greater Israel". If they give up on the West Bank and Gaza - leaving it to the Palestinians, they give up their dream. If they succesfully claim Gaza and West Bank into the Greater Israel... the state of Israel (formed along religious boundaries as teh Jewish homeland), will no longer be a majority-Jewish land. The reunited Israel will have a majority Arab population. If they then maintain their democratic ideals...Arabs will have to be given equal power politically...which would put Hamas in a position to rule Israel.

    In the meanwhile, every day that they're in Gaza and with every 'innocent' killed..their fragile truce with the more moderate (Sunni) Arab countries falters.
  20. Gonz

    Gonz molṑn labé Staff Member

    try this

    Root for the Jews or the Syrians (because as minkey is finally realizing..there is no Palestine. It's a region of Syria...not a country.

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