Laura Bush supports gay marriage...hilarity ensues

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Gotholic

Well-Known Member
Gonz said:
Half right. Businesses do not pay taxes. They collect monies, for the government due to law and/or regulation, from their customers to give the government.

OK?

People pay taxes. The money the government has is the peoples money. It was taken from us at the end of a gun.

So, it is not the governments money. Lessening our tax burden is not "paid for". It is not our responsibility to pay for anothers wants. As the tax burden is lifted from the people, as it should be, it's the peoples representatives responsibility to lower spending. They are failing. They fail again if they force us to increase our burden.

Small government is responsible government.
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Too bad we cannot list the government as dependents and deduct them.
 
spike

spike

New Member
Gotholic said:
So, if your nation does not claim itself as socialist then your nation is not socialist!
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The economic model that a nation claims to subscribe to is a pretty good indicator of what model they use. I guess the important part is that Greece is a mixed capitalism economic model, not a socialist state.
 
V

valkyrie

Well-Known Member
spike said:
Greece is not a socialist state. Here is a list of socialist states.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_countries


The problem with capitalism on the other hand is that people are greedy immoral fucks sometimes. As evidenced by the banking fiasco that almost brought our country down.
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A pure capitalist society will never work, nor will a purely communist society. Neither will work for the same reason: human nature.

I'm not willing to give up the "socialist" programs that are set in place to better our society. Mass public education of the young is one of those. I am willing to pay taxes to support that, even if I don't have a kid benefiting from it.

I've found that lately anything that the Far Right (and especially the "Tea Baggers") disagrees with is labeled socialist or communist, and even fascist or a combination of all three, even when the definition does not apply. :shrug: I chalk it up to ignorance and the dumbing down of public education from both ends of the political spectrum (both are responsible). So I wouldn't take this label too seriously when you see it here. You and I (and a few other people here) are both educated enough to understand the definition and use it as it applies. :bgtup:
 
V

valkyrie

Well-Known Member
Gonz said:
The Constitution mandates the extent of each branch. If it's not there, they can't do it.
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That's what I said. I posted the Article/Section so everyone can see. I can not come up with a situation that can not be applied to or interpreted from the wording of that Article/Section.

Hey look, our future, unless we return our Congress to its limited power, as described in the Consitution.
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I am all about limiting the government's power, but more importantly: fiscal responsibility of that government. :bgtup:
 
V

valkyrie

Well-Known Member
Gonz said:
Too bad. Our nation will fall because of this.
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... you missed some...
...to better our society. Mass public education of the young is one of those. I am willing to pay taxes to support that, even if I don't have a kid benefiting from it.

I don't think it will fall because some programs are for the common good. "Provide for the common defense" is not a bad "socialist" program. Nor is financial and medical assistance to the mentally retarded (not all people are created equal, you know). Publicly funded, mass education of the young can only improve a society (history and sociology have proven this). These "socialist" programs make our society a stronger, more competitive one.

Study pre-communist China. Programs like these were not in place prior to their embracing of communism. The historic Chinese culture is naturally capitalistic and the Chinese people are natural, successful capitalists. Yet a series of natural disasters and political moves pushed people willingly to accept and embrace communism.

Pure "communism" and pure "socialism" and pure "capitalism" will never work. The USSR proved, during WWII, that centralized control was detrimental to their own defense when Hitler invaded. China is, even as we post these comments, moving back towards "capitalism".
 
Gonz

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
to better our society.

Says who? Are you aware that we had a higher literacy rate in 1735 than 2005?

valkyrie said:
Study pre-communist China. Programs like these were not in place prior to their embracing of communism. The historic Chinese culture is naturally capitalistic and the Chinese people are natural, successful capitalists. Yet a series of natural disasters and political moves pushed people willingly to accept and embrace communism.
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From which they fell from grace, until they re-adopted capitalism.
 
Gonz

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
several places...

here's an example

Oh, 99%. I'd buy that but then I'd have to wonder why there are so many Adult Literacy claims that say X% is illiterate. Either we is or we aint.
 
spike

spike

New Member
In the second half of the 17th century, the literacy rate for adult men in New England is estimated to have been as high as 95%, more than twice the estimated literacy rate for men in England. American women had literacy rates higher than 60%. Nowhere in the world was literacy greater.
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95% and 60%. That gives an average of 77.5% which is a good bit lower than today. Also got to wonder if they were just using white men and women in the sample and what the rate was in other areas besides New England.
 
V

valkyrie

Well-Known Member
Gonz said:
to better our society.

Says who? Are you aware that we had a higher literacy rate in 1735 than 2005?
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It depends on who you're counting for "literacy rates". Land owning males? Or all members of society?

From which they fell from grace, until they re-adopted capitalism.
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There was no public education for China prior to their turn to communism. Had there been basic socialist programs in place (such as free, public education) and a fair taxation method, I think things would be different there now.

Literacy Rates...
http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/society/A0858751.html
http://nces.ed.gov/naal/lit_history.asp
 
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