Love - a decision or a mindless chemical reaction?

Spirit

Kissy Goddess
Love - LL's thread got me thinking about this...

Is love a chemical reaction? A living thing... a dynamic thing?
Is it a decision - to "fall in love and stay in love"?

I mean, you meet someone and are attracted to them on a physical level so you want to get to know them. They present attributes that are appealing to you and you know you wnat to be with them. So on goes the romancing, dating... blah blah blah... then you get married... then along comes kids, bills, this and that.. and actually being in love becomes a chore. You have to work at it..

I think love is a decision.

Thoughts....?
 

HeXp£Øi±

Well-Known Member
I think it can be both. Many times we love someone without even thinking about it. But We also have to power to love even those people that we can easily hate and that might already hate us. That love imo is the more powerful kind. Unconditional love.
 

Scanty

New Member
chemical reaction. soz. not a definite truth but i'd be more inclined to choose that option. :shrug:
 

PT

Off 'Motherfuckin' Topic Elite
Chemical, I've fallen in love with people my brain told me I shouldn't.
 

Shadowfax

<b>mod cow</b>
chemical, most certainly at start.

after that, no idea. never came any further than start. i assume it's more like a decision after a while, but heh, like i said before, assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups...
 

Nixy

Elimi-nistrator
Staff member
Chemical at start for sure

After that it's a decission I think
 

fury

Administrator
Staff member
love is a mistake... mistakes are made by incorrect decision, therefore love is a decision.
 

Ardsgaine

New Member
It's a response to the values one sees in the other person. We make the decision to value certain traits, and when we see those traits combined in someone else, we respond to them. It seems like the response is "chemical," but it's based on previous decisions. We still have to make the decision to follow up, and we have to pay attention to how the other person acts as the relationship progresses to make sure that our initial assessment of them was accurate.

There is work involved, but everything worthwhile has to be earned. I don't believe in unconditional love, although in the case of children I think that if you can't love them it probably means that either you've fucked up pretty bad, or you are fucked up pretty bad-- or both.
 

Dave

Well-Known Member
its like what spirit said initially. you can start off overwhelmed with emotion for someone. you get a high off being with them and they are the only thing that matters. lust
after spending time together, reality sets back in and the highs are fewer and further between. at this point, both need to make a decision. is this other person someone i can truely stand to be around without wanting to throttle them. if the answer is yes, a decision, its love.

my additional $0.02
 

Scanty

New Member
saying love is a decision, means you're saying it's a conscious decision, right?
I don't think that it is.

That's the less cynical side of my argument.


Ardsgaine said:
It's a response to the values one sees in the other person. We make the decision to value certain traits, and when we see those traits combined in someone else, we respond to them. It seems like the response is "chemical," but it's based on previous decisions. We still have to make the decision to follow up...

Decisions are first made out of the different choices that become apparent to us. Our perception/outlook on these choices is influenced by our experience with them and therefore our learned responses. Experience is memory. Memory is chemical.
 

Shadowfax

<b>mod cow</b>
lol @ small edit :D

love isn't a conscious decision. not at all. even if the brains tells a person not to feel in love with another person, the human mind will ignore it. chemical processes over logical reasoning.
 

Scanty

New Member
:D... I thought that people wouldn't get why that was the romantic side of my argument. For me, it was WAY romantic, but then i have crushed-ice for blood.


:headbang:
 

Dave

Well-Known Member
well its true that chemical can, and will, trump reason whenever it gets the chance, those relationships are bound to fail. therefore, it never progressed past the chemical stage.
love means one is ready to "settle down" and in most cases raise a family. to chose the right partner to accomplish this requires thought whether it is on a conscious or subconscious level. everyone has that mental checklist for what they think the perfect partner would be. thats not chemical, its a decision.
 

Scanty

New Member
Spot said:
to chose the right partner to accomplish this requires thought whether it is on a conscious or subconscious level. everyone has that mental checklist for what they think the perfect partner would be. thats not chemical, its a decision.


Make a distinction between 'chemical' and 'decision' - if you would...
 

Ardsgaine

New Member
Scanty said:
Decisions are first made out of the different choices that become apparent to us. Our perception/outlook on these choices is influenced by our experience with them and therefore our learned responses. Experience is memory. Memory is chemical.

ding! ding!

Ruff! Ruff! *slaver*

All brain functions are chemical, but that's not the same as saying that all behavior is deterministic. If it is, then the original question made no sense. Decisions take place in the brain, the brain functions by chemical reactions, so it makes no sense to ask whether love is a decision or a chemical reaction. I read the question as asking whether we had control over the process, or not.

Experience is stored in the brain by a chemical process, but we have this thing called reason which allows us to make something of our experience over and above just an automatic learned response.

I guess we've reduced the question of whether love is a decision or not down to whether reason is deterministic or volitional. I say it's volitional and the evidence of that is direct observation through introspection. Every time I make the decision to think about this instead of that, I am exercising my volition.
 

Spirit

Kissy Goddess
Love isn't a thing which either is or isn't. It's not absolute, because people aren't absolute. At least the interesting ones aren't.

Love isn't static, it's dynamic. It's a thing which grows, a thing that has a life- it flows, it ebbs, it gets deeper, it goes away, there are different genus' of it, but it's all of a species...

Ok- so it's a dynamic, living thing, or at least a dynamic construct of living things.

Well- so this means it needs maintenance. Like a car or a house- both built by living things. It needs oiled sometimes, cleaned up and cleaned out sometimes, flushed out at times, repaired at times.

It needs nourishment, like any truly dynamic, growing thing does. It needs to have acts commited in it's name, which feed it, which help it grow. Like a tree or a watermelon vine, it needs fertilizer- the good stuff, not the synthesized stuff- that shit works, but you get a huge, overblown, relatively diluted and tasteless fruit.

You have to do some things sometimes you would rather not do- whether you want to get all semantic or not, distinguish between love and the one you love or not, doesn't matter- the one you love- they want to do something, you don't. Too bad Sparky, do it. Not all the time- Love is pretty strong in the first place, when it's sprouted in the right climate and soil, but sometimes- it needs feeding sometimes- fairly regularly, you know?

So- love is a thing, a construct. It is mindless- who knows why you love this and not that, her but not her, that guy but not that other guy, red but not yellow....

So it needs fed, tended, cared for, believed in, just like the person from whom it flows, or any person for that matter. Some of the things that feed it, seemingly, are kisses, touches, a great courage to believe, to trust, doing the laundry, respect, not doing or buying big things without mutual consent, fights, coming back after the fights, sorries, jokes and laughs, lots of laughs, a willingness to try things out, to do things even if you don't want to..., passion, effort to enflame passion if it is waning...admiration. Admiration is important...the guts to not juddge or lecture too much, but to be instead supportive...

Love is also the things you do in support of it. This is a tangible demonstration of the intangible thing- love is not homogenous- it is intangible, and it is tangible..this part is complicated, I don't know if I am doing it justice.... It's like a person, any living thing- there is a huge part you cannot see, cannot touch, can't smell or tickle...and that really *is* the person...

But then that *person*, or dog, or cat, or salmon in the ocean or whatever, also has this 'body'- this means of making the *person* a tangible thing, a means of expressing the person, a vehicle for the persons growth, for their adventure, for their development....

You see? The touchable and the untouchable. The thing and the expression of the thing, and that expression in effect being that thing.

So, then there is probably a big difference between love and a cup of coffee. A person and a rock. A fish and a stream.

And if I am to love, I need to take that little feeling at the start, and surround it, cherish it, protect it, feed and water it, take it to the bathroom, change it's diapers and potty train it. Make it a big-ass romantic dinner sometimes, clean the damn living room for it sometimes...go to a for-gods-sake football game without throwing up for it sometimes... put up with skidmarks in the underwear without comment, just do the damn laundry...watch a stupid movie...

You get the idea.

so to me, it's feeling, it's action- and with me, often there is no conscious decision before action- I just know 'this, I want to do', or 'this I dont' want to do' without thinking about it, and do the thing, or don't do the thing...and it's all shades of grey in between those simple extremes...but yes, at times, there is conscious decision..

but love is far more than a decision making process, although it is certainly that in part...





I have a headache. :D
 
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