Recession? We don' need no steenkeen recession!

[jimpeel]

No, the meltdown was because both sides let illegal immigrants take out loans.
Now they've pulled out because of pressure.

Why won't anybody else say this? It's so apparent.

The whole mess started out with the favored buzzword of the day "Redlining". The legislation signed by Clinton forced banks and lending institutions to make loans to people who were never going to be able to repay the loan. The watchwords of the day were how those in redlined districts could never realize the American dream. Subprime loans and government mandates forced companies to do what good business sense said they should not do.

This is still one more example of how, if you want whole industries to fail en masse, the government has no peer.

Anyone here still want the government in control of healthcare?

 

[jimpeel]

Clintonista Robert B. Reich on the MSNBC last night (09-15-08) slips up and tells the truth that Democrats and Greenspan were responsible for the experiment that gave houses to people who cannot afford them.

Question: "Were conservative Democrats part of the problem here?"

REICH: In the latter years of the Clinton administration -- when I was not there any longer, I should add -- there was an attempt by Alan Greenspan and Bob Rubin and a few others to deregulate financial markets, and they did. They split commercial banking off from investment banking. And many people say, "Well, that was the beginning of the problem," and then, of course, in 2003-2004, Alan Greenspan reduced short-term interest rates to the point where every single bank wanted to lend money. I mean, if you could stand up straight you could get a bank loan because there was so much pressure to get that money out the door. Money was so cheap. So, yes, there is some responsibility on Democrats, some responsibility on Alan Greenspan and the Fed.

 

[spike]

Wrong. The Glass-Steagall Act of 1933 installed regulations which the biggest con of them all repealed on Novermer 12, 1999.

Read it and weep.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass-Steagall_Act

In your mind does that actually prove that Cons don't like to deregulate?

 

[catocom]

I wasn't pointing fingers or stating names.

I know, but you said 'they',and followed it with an ideology I agree with.

 

[catocom]

The whole mess started out with the favored buzzword of the day "Redlining". The legislation signed by Clinton forced banks and lending institutions to make loans to people who were never going to be able to repay the loan. The watchwords of the day were how those in redlined districts could never realize the American dream. Subprime loans and government mandates forced companies to do what good business sense said they should not do.

This is still one more example of how, if you want whole industries to fail en masse, the government has no peer.

Anyone here still want the government in control of healthcare?

True!
what you aren't saying is that Bush did nothing to correct it.

 

[spike]

And then there's this:

More opinion pieces from Jimbo. Yay.

I wonder if I could find an opinion piece that blames other things or people...that would make it fact right?

 

[catocom]

In your mind does that actually prove that Cons don't like to deregulate?

well if cons indeed don't Like to deregulate, I Must be a libertarian.

 

[chcr]

They aren't just doing it "now". They have been doing it since Clinton repealed the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass-Steagall_Act

*sigh* Not the same thing 'peel, although I will agree that that certainly contributed to the current problems.

 

[jimpeel]

In your mind does that actually prove that Cons don't like to deregulate?

I don't like deregulation because it has always caused an increase in costs -- rent control; airlines; cableTV; telephony; etc., etc., ad nauseum.

This is but one more example; and it was Democrats who lobbied for it; Democrats who authored it; Democrats who passed it; and a Democrat who signed it into law.

It doesn't "prove" anything in my mind as I already know the facts; and now, so do you. What you do with them is up to you.

We are all born stupid. Some of us simply stay that way. Don't be one of them.

 

[jimpeel]

I know, but you said 'they',and followed it with an ideology I agree with.

Then your point was well taken.

 

[spike]

We are all born stupid. Some of us simply stay that way. Don't be one of them.

It would be incredibly stupid if someone responded to the sentence "Classic Con views - deregulate." with a single example of deregulation by a non-Con and made the logic leap that it indicated that conservatives don't like to deregulate.

In fact I think it would take someone that was born stupid and had made a concerted effort to get stupider. Someone who is also supporting "John McCain: The Deregulator".

 

[catocom]

It's not the deregulation that's the problem, it's people (gov, and businesses)
that break actual laws, and have enough money to buy their way out of it.
Greed, plan and simple.

You don't have to be greedy, to be a good capitalist.
Greed will consume, and it has.

 

[catocom]

lemme clarify my position.
I'm for less regulation, but more oversite....in many areas.

 

[Gonz]

hey, let's bail everyone out. !

That does seem to be where we're headed. Pelosi (I think) has suggested a federal department to bail out broke corporations.

Let 'em all go under. Fannie & Freddie can live under a bridge like th erest of the homeless & their CEO's can follow Ken Lay (to jail or a heart atack, I don't care)

I'm for less regulation, but more oversite....in many areas.

Why? EVERY time the feds get involved, bad stuff happens. The more involvement, the worse it is. Oversight leads to laws or regualtiosn which leads to collapse.

 

[jimpeel]

True!
what you aren't saying is that Bush did nothing to correct it.

As, did not, anyone else. Franklin Raines, Jamie Gorelick, Jim Johnson, Robert Rubin, these are the people that got rid of the regulations. They are also the ones who have had their hands the deepest in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac --former Clintonistas all.

HERE is the timeline of Gorelicks path of destruction.

 

[Gonz]

Jamie Gorelick,

I agree with Rush...she has pictures of somebody with a goat. Her name pops up everywhere & it's always trouble.

 

[catocom]

yep I first voted for GW because I thought he knew the border situations, and could deal with them.
Little dd I know he was on the same page with Clinton, even more so pushing the north american union.
You can deny that if you want, but it's still true.

I'll not fall for it again.
We have nowhere near the security we should have.

as far as I'm concerned both major parties have blown it over at least the last
16 years.

Taxation without reprsentation...welcome to it.
It's baaaack.

 

[jimpeel]

More opinion pieces from Jimbo. Yay.

I wonder if I could find an opinion piece that blames other things or people...that would make it fact right?

So the New York Times NEVER reported on September 11, 2003 THIS on the attempts of the Bush Administration regulatory overhaul the housing finance industry? It was just someone's "opinion"?

Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee NEVER said, in opposition to the Bush efforts, "These two entities — Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — are not facing any kind of financial crisis. The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.”? It was just someone's "opinion"?

Representative Melvin L. Watt, Democrat of North Carolina, NEVER said in opposition to the Bush efforts ”I don’t see much other than a shell game going on here, moving something from one agency to another and in the process weakening the bargaining power of poorer families and their ability to get affordable housing.”? It was just someone's "opinion"?

The Clinton Administration DIDN'T create the market for the high-risk subprime loans? It was just someone's opinion?

The Bush Administration NEVER tried to rein in the housing finance industry? It was just someone's opinion?

You just live in some big ol' fantasy land. Once again, just making up your own reality.

 

[jimpeel]

True!
what you aren't saying is that Bush did nothing to correct it.

Then you missed THIS POST.

 

[spike]

So the New York Times NEVER reported on September 11, 2003 THIS on the attempts of the Bush Administration regulatory overhaul the housing finance industry? It was just someone's "opinion"?

Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee NEVER said, in opposition to the Bush efforts, "These two entities — Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — are not facing any kind of financial crisis. The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.”? It was just someone's "opinion"?

Representative Melvin L. Watt, Democrat of North Carolina, NEVER said in opposition to the Bush efforts ”I don’t see much other than a shell game going on here, moving something from one agency to another and in the process weakening the bargaining power of poorer families and their ability to get affordable housing.”? It was just someone's "opinion"?

The Clinton Administration DIDN'T create the market for the high-risk subprime loans? It was just someone's opinion?

The Bush Administration NEVER tried to rein in the housing finance industry? It was just someone's opinion?

You just live in some big ol' fantasy land. Once again, just making up your own reality.

Did I say any of that? Did I? Let me check.....

......no I didn't.

You just made up something again to argue against. It's called a Straw man. Did you check that link I gave you last time? Logical fallacy...which you are guilty of constantly.

Now who's living in a famtasyland? That would be you Jimbo.

Here's what I said...

I wonder if I could find an opinion piece that blames other things or people...that would make it fact right?

Turns out there's lots of them. Here's a nice one for you.

Who’s been president the last 8 years? Republican George Bush.

Who started the expensive wars — Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, now Pakistan — that are bankrupting us? Republican President George Bush.

Who started the inflation of the dollar — to pay for Bush’s wars “on the cheap” — that is bankrupting us? Republican Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan (since retired), appointed by Republican President George Bush.

Who is continuing the inflation? Current Republican Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke, appointed by Republican President George Bush.

Which party controlled the House of Representatives 12 of the past 14 years? Republicans.

Which party controlled the Senate 4 of the past 6 years? Republicans.

Which party has had a majority on the Supreme Court for more than 20 years? Republicans.

Which party held control of all three branches of the federal government — legislative, executive, and judicial — from 2003 to 2006, that’s 4 full years? Republicans.