Recession? We don' need no steenkeen recession!

[jimpeel]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/92664318-7921-11dd-9d0c-000077b07658.html

Oil price of $100 a barrel on horizon
By Javier Blas and Carola Hoyos in London and Michael Mackenzie in New York

Published: September 2 2008 20:17 | Last updated: September 3 2008 00:03

Oil prices sank to a five-month low of just more than $105 a barrel on Tuesday as traders turned their sights on signs that slower growth was spreading beyond the US into Europe, Japan and even emerging markets.

The fall led some analysts to suggest that oil prices could move back below $100 a barrel, a level not seen since March, after fears that US oil supplies could be severely disrupted by hurricane Gustav proved unfounded.

[more]

 

[A.B.Normal]

A day that started with euphoria over a $10 plunge in oil prices ended in disappointment Tuesday as Wall Street squandered an early 240-point surge on the Dow.

Today's Market

The Dow Jones Industrial Average closed down 26.63 points, or 0.23% to 11516.92, the Standard & Poor’s 500 fell 5.25 points, or 0.41%, to 1277.58 and the Nasdaq Composite lost 18.28 points, or 0.77%, to 2349.24. The FOX 50 rose 0.43 points, or 0.05%, to 915.40.

The rally topped out just minutes into the trading day and slowly faded, leaving many to question what happened to the day's gains.

“The economy is not going to heal itself just because oil goes down $5 or $10. There are other things that need to happen for the rest of the market to go up just because oil is down," said Michael James, senior equities trader at Wedbush Morgan Securities in Los Angeles, citing a stabilization in the housing and credit markets. "I think that cold water got thrown on people's faces 15 minutes after the market opened.”

http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/wall-street-optimism-gustav/

 

[jimpeel]

When the Dow is up the press ignores it and claims the Dow is not a very good indicator of economic health.

When it is down, they think it is the leading indicator of economic health.

What will show up on the street as lower prices on goods first; the Dow losing 26.63 points or the price of gas, and consequently the price of shipped goods, going down $10? Which leaves money in the pockets of the citizenry?

This:

on signs that slower growth was spreading beyond the US into Europe, Japan and even emerging markets.

will have far more effect on "healing" the economy.

 

[spike]

Greenspan: This Is The Worst Economy I've Ever Seen

Former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan offered a woeful outlook of America's economic situation on Sunday, saying the crisis with the country's financial institutions was as dire as he had ever seen in his long career, and predicting that one or more of those institutions would likely collapse in the near future.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/14/greenspan-this-is-the-wor_n_126274.html

With Merril Lynch and Lehman Bros. going down maybe Jim could tell us another happy story so we don't have to listen to that crazy Mr. Greenspan.

 

[catocom]

10917.51 -503.99 / -4.41% Sep 15

well I tell ya, I don't think the Gov can bail out Everybody that's going to go down.
Gotta cut the losses, let um lose, take the friggin' billionaires' moneys and pay the stockholders, and shut the doors Then.

 

[2minkey]

10917.51 -503.99 / -4.41% Sep 15

well I tell ya, I don't think the Gov can bail out Everybody that's going to go down.
Gotta cut the losses, let um lose, take the friggin' billionaires' moneys and pay the stockholders, and shut the doors Then.

fingers in ears la la la la yes the economy is still doing great!

 

[Gonz]

The difference between our economy & the one portrayed by the "we're all gonna die" left (read: media) is huge.

It's still a long way to Stagflation & the misery index.

I hope Leham wakes Congress up & they decide against bailing out fannie & freddie. Let the market do it's job. People who can't afford their home should lose them & the banks that loaned those folks the money should follow suit.

 

[spike]

The difference between our economy & the one portrayed by the "we're all gonna die" left (read: media) is huge.

Greenspan is a big lefty now? You do just make things up as you go.

 

[2minkey]

la
la
la
la
la

 

[Gonz]

Greenspan is a big lefty now? You do just make things up as you go.

Not at all what I said.

 

[spike]

The difference between our economy & the one portrayed by the "we're all gonna die" left (read: media) is huge.

Greenspan seems to agree with the media. Should we listen to him or listen to your unsubstantiated wishful thinking that you presented as fact?

 

[MrBishop]

Current GDP: 13,807Trillion www.bea.gov
Current debt: 9.683Trillion (Not counting the two mortgage firms now backed up by your GVT) http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

 

[MrBishop]

Fanny mae and Freddy mac aren't going to be counted in the deficit numbers... not important enough, it seems.

The Congressional Budget Office reported on Tuesday that the government’s finances are deteriorating rapidly: the budget deficit for this year is expected to reach $407 billion, more than double last year’s shortfall, and to exceed $500 billion in 2009. The takeover of Fannie and Freddie, necessary though it is, will add to the deterioration

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/opinion/14sun1.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

 

[2minkey]

um yeah and the war don't count either! that's "special" spending.

 

[Gonz]

Current GDP: 13,807Trillion www.bea.gov
Current debt: 9.683Trillion (Not counting the two mortgage firms now backed up by your GVT) http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

We ought to contact Congress. They are the ones holding the purse strings.

 

[Cerise]

cha-ching!

 

[MrBishop]

AIG bailed out now

The Federal Reserve Board on Tuesday, with the full support of the Treasury Department, authorized the Federal Reserve Bank of New York to lend up to $85 billion to the American International Group (AIG) under section 13(3) of the Federal Reserve Act. The secured loan has terms and conditions designed to protect the interests of the U.S. government and taxpayers.

The Board determined that, in current circumstances, a disorderly failure of AIG could add to already significant levels of financial market fragility and lead to substantially higher borrowing costs, reduced household wealth, and materially weaker economic performance.

The purpose of this liquidity facility is to assist AIG in meeting its obligations as they come due. This loan will facilitate a process under which AIG will sell certain of its businesses in an orderly manner, with the least possible disruption to the overall economy.
The AIG facility has a 24-month term. Interest will accrue on the outstanding balance at a rate of three-month Libor plus 850 basis points. AIG will be permitted to draw up to $85 billion under the facility.

The interests of taxpayers are protected by key terms of the loan. The loan is collateralized by all the assets of AIG, and of its primary non-regulated subsidiaries. These assets include the stock of substantially all of the regulated subsidiaries. The loan is expected to be repaid from the proceeds of the sale of the firm’s assets. The U.S. government will receive a 79.9 percent equity interest in AIG and has the right to veto the payment of dividends to common and preferred shareholders.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/press/other/20080916a.htm

 

[2minkey]

this is bullshit.

so glad my tax dollars are going to prop up poorly run businesses.

hey, let's bail everyone out. i think i'll just go out and run up $50k on my credit card, and then let everybody else pay for it weeeeee!

 

[Inkara1]

I tried that (nowhere near $50K though) and I can tell you I don't pump enough tax dollars into the coffers to be cared about.

 

[spike]

Don't worry guys, Jimbo will tell us a nice story about how this is not really a big deal.