Seperation of Christian & state

[a13antichrist]

The role of religion had been debated throughout centuries of intellectual and scientific advance, but had ultimately always come down to a choice for individuals and their consciences, they added.

That's all very well but that's absolutely no reason to keep it around after it's become irrelevant. You kick out the founding president of a company after he's no longer an asset and religion shouldn't be treated any differently.

 

[chcr]

That's all very well but that's absolutely no reason to keep it around after it's become irrelevant. You kick out the founding president of a company after he's no longer an asset and religion shouldn't be treated any differently.

You're trying to treat an emotional issue logically, a13. I don't say you're wrong (in fact I agree) but being right has little or nothing to do with being accepted. Most people want there to be a higher authority and are unwilling to admit, even to themselves, that there isn't one. Hell, a lot of people still refuse to accept evolution despite overwhelming evidence.

 

[rrfield]

Back to post #1, Gonz is right. The Constitution does not contain the phrase "separation of church and state". It started with a letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists in 1802.

I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their Legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State

This is not a legal document.

Neither is this, but I find it intersting...

Monopolies[/I]]Strongly guarded as is the separation between religion and Government in the Constitution of the United States, the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history.

James Madison seemed to think the Constitution implies a seperation between church and state (religion and Government).

Somewhere along the line, the Supreme Court picked up on the whole separation of church and state phrase, I think it was in 1925, Gitlow v. New York.

rrfield

 

[freako104]

no but the Constitution does say that govt will not establish any religion at all. and freedom to practice any religion you want to.

 

[Gonz]

The "seperation" is written into the bill of rights. It also implicitly adds that the government may not disallow the people their right to practice as they wish.

Where the problem comes from is judges, making laws instead of interpreting them, disallowing all forms of religious practice in/on/near public lands. Refusing Christian symbols while encouraging other religious symbols smacks right at the heart of the 1st. Disallowing sculptures that depict parts of our heritage also thrusts a knife into that amendment. It says Congress shall make no law...not Government shall not allow.

 

[freako104]

i do agree with that gonz. But it would be better if there werent religious symbols in public at all to avoid this crap

 

[Gonz]

But it would be better if there werent religious symbols in public at all to avoid this crap

Why? Isn't freedom of speech also allowed? Just because it , makes someone (fill in verb here) means it shouldn't be seen? Then we're talking about a whole new problem.

It's estimated that 96% of the worlds population believes in some variation of a higher power. The 4% of the rest of us shouldn't get all worked up because they, the overwhelming majority, wish to symbolise their faith. Whining about that is as absurd as we saying it's stupid.

 

[Ms Ann Thrope]

my ineffectual and pointless whine: I have nothing against other people exercising their right to worship in any way they please, but I do resent seeing it on government property which I think should exist as a purely secular space. Ok, so maybe it was purchased with private monies, and maybe there was a separate and private fund set up for maintenance and security. I still see its placement on public property as the government's validation of some wisdom tradition (doesn't matter if this is a Christmas creche or some other sacred symbol).

 

[Gonz]

Since secular means not overtly religious what's wrong with a couple of cubic yards being taken up in a matter of 10, 20, 50 ,100000 sq feet?

I don't believe that our government has a place in the medical field. Yet, there they are, Medicaid, medicare, state run institutions, vying to pay for prescription drugs...yet few complain about that.

 

[freako104]

Why? Isn't freedom of speech also allowed? Just because it , makes someone (fill in verb here) means it shouldn't be seen? Then we're talking about a whole new problem.

It's estimated that 96% of the worlds population believes in some variation of a higher power. The 4% of the rest of us shouldn't get all worked up because they, the overwhelming majority, wish to symbolise their faith. Whining about that is as absurd as we saying it's stupid.

yes gonz they do have freedom of speech. but i dont like religion to be forced down my throat everywhere I look. i dont need the 10 commandments,i dont need the Qu'aran or anything else telling me how to live my life. thats why i said they shouldnt be there. that and it causes shit to stir up between the religions. if its not there in the first place would there be a problem

 

[Gonz]

i dont like religion to be forced down my throat everywhere I look

Don't look. You actually agree with all the weird shit people do to themselves, their houses, their cars? What do you do, you divert your attention or stare awestruck at their unbelieveable stupidity & lack of class & taste. Do the same.

 

[freako104]

thats their own personal property

 

[Squiggy]

Gonz, They have plenty of room to display that stuff at their church/place of worship...and they prolly don't fall under the normal signage restrictions. Why do they need public areas to display it? What if WalMart wants to erect statues of Sam in every city? Do we let them?

 

[Puma]

People should just live with what they've got. No one will dare touch the jewish symbols for fear of being anti-semitic. No one even knows what the hell the star and crescent are for. Just live with it, it's not like anyone really really needs another statue of baby jesus. Hey, I'm a former ISCON member. Do I get a poster of my God brutally murdering all miscreants in the world with a sword on all the school's walls? Nope. Am I dying? Nope.

 

[Bungi]

But everyone's dying Puma.

 

[freako104]

everyday we live we are dying

 

[BeardofPants]

My thoughts on this is that there is a time and place for religion, and that it does not belong outside church and private establishment.